[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Trans women existing effects you how?

I'm talking about not wanting to be referred to as a menstrator or a cervix haver or a "non-man", I'm talking about protecting womens sports and women in prisons

Is the term "man" being erased like woman is? I haven't heard you being referred to as prostate havers or ejaculators or non-women. Why is it only women being referred to by bodily functions?

[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

There's literally nothing else to include. "Queer" is nonsense and intersex and asexual are completely different to LGBT.

Again, talk to the manager of LGBTQIA+ people

L - Lesbian. Lesbian is a term used to refer to homosexual females.
G - Gay. Gay is a term used to refer to homosexuality, a homosexual person, or a homosexual male.
B - Bisexual. Bisexual is when a person is attracted to two sexes/genders.
T - Trans. Trans is an umbrella term for transgender and transsexual people.
Q - Queer/Questioning. Queer is an umbrella term for all of those who are not heterosexual and/or cisgender. Questioning is when a person isn't 100% sure of their sexual orientation and/or gender, and are trying to find their true identity.
I - Intersex. Intersex is when a person has an indeterminate mix of primary and secondary sex characteristics.
A - Asexuality. Asexuality is when a person experiences no (or little, if referring to demisexuality or grey-asexuality) sexual attraction to people.

+ - The "+" symbol simply stands for all of the other sexualities, sexes, and genders that aren't included in these few letters.

What's so hard to understand?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Trans women existing effects you how?

Trans women have been allowed in women’s bathrooms for example, for years, do you want that to change?

Single sex spaces had to be fought for. I wonder how many women are comfortable with visibly male people in their spaces?

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

As if Trans people ever told "biological women" they can't talk about it? When and where exactly?



When I see people thinking trans rights affect women's right, I-

I mean is this thread itself not an example of women being told to shut up? Have you ever been on Twitter?

You don't think trans rights have affected womens sports?

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm talking about not wanting to be referred to as a menstrator or a cervix haver or a "non-man", I'm talking about protecting womens sports and women in prisons

Is the term "man" being erased like woman is? I haven't heard you being referred to as prostate havers or ejaculators or non-women. Why is it only women being referred to by bodily functions?

The term woman isn’t being erased, that’s such a ridiculous myth it’s unreal.

I’ll ask you again, would you like trans woman to be banned from using the same spaces as you do? like public toilets, even though they’ve been allowed to do so for a long time, people who advocate for things like that aren’t trying to ‘protect women’s rights’ they’re trying to take right away from trans people

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

Again, talk to the manager of LGBTQIA+ people

L - Lesbian. Lesbian is a term used to refer to homosexual females.
G - Gay. Gay is a term used to refer to homosexuality, a homosexual person, or a homosexual male.
B - Bisexual. Bisexual is when a person is attracted to two sexes/genders.
T - Trans. Trans is an umbrella term for transgender and transsexual people.
Q - Queer/Questioning. Queer is an umbrella term for all of those who are not heterosexual and/or cisgender. Questioning is when a person isn't 100% sure of their sexual orientation and/or gender, and are trying to find their true identity.
I - Intersex. Intersex is when a person has an indeterminate mix of primary and secondary sex characteristics.
A - Asexuality. Asexuality is when a person experiences no (or little, if referring to demisexuality or grey-asexuality) sexual attraction to people.

+ - The "+" symbol simply stands for all of the other sexualities, sexes, and genders that aren't included in these few letters.

What's so hard to understand?

It's not hard to understand.

The term queer is redundant because LGBT already covers everyone who's not straight and/or cis.

People having dodgy genitals or a hormone inbalance isn't the same as being LGBT, and asexuals don't face discrimination in the way LGBT people have.

The plus is unnecessary because there isn't anything apart from straight, homo, or bi.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Liam-

The term woman isn’t being erased, that’s such a ridiculous myth it’s unreal.

I’ll ask you again, would you like trans woman to be banned from using the same spaces as you do? like public toilets, even though they’ve been allowed to do so for a long time, people who advocate for things like that aren’t trying to ‘protect women’s rights’ they’re trying to take right away from trans people

I never had a problem with that, i only started having a problem with this stuff when self ID became a thing and suddenly all these transactivists appeared telling anyone who had any reservations about how self ID could be open to abuse, to shut up.

[Scarlett.]

It seems a lot more sensible if there was perhaps a seperate changing/toilet facility for transpeople to use. Because as much as some women are against transwomen in female areas, a lot of transwomen are terrified of using them because it can, quite a lot of the time, lead to them getting attacked and targeted, but they have no choice because asking transwomen to get changed in a male changing room could lead to even more problems.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I never had a problem with that, i only started having a problem with this stuff when self ID became a thing and suddenly all these transactivists appeared telling anyone who had any reservations about how self ID could be open to abuse, to shut up.

Okay then, so what’s your answer? Do we segregate trans people away from everyone else? Have bouncers do genital checks at toilet doors? Where is the line drawn aside from stripping people of their rights to live freely, like you’re claiming people are ‘trying’ to do to you?

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I never had a problem with that, i only started having a problem with this stuff when self ID became a thing and suddenly all these transactivists appeared telling anyone who had any reservations about how self ID could be open to abuse, to shut up.

The problem with self IDing is, you have to self ID for a while for the NHS to clear you for pretty much anything, its a catch 22 situations. It does however leave loopholes for people who want to use it for bad reasons.

Honestly, it would solve problems if they didn't make transpeople jump through 3000 hoops to get hormones.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Scarlett.

It seems a lot more sensible if there was perhaps a seperate changing/toilet facility for transpeople to use. Because as much as some women are against transwomen in female areas, a lot of transwomen are terrified of using them because it can, quite a lot of the time, lead to them getting attacked and targeted, but they have no choice because asking transwomen to get changed in a male changing room could lead to even more problems.

The problem is that would open the doors to all sorts of suggestions and circumstances, what would happen if there was a campaign by straight men to have gays banned from public toilets because they ‘feel uncomfortable’ if we start segregating one minority at the behest of the ‘majority’, where does it end?

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

The problem is that would open the doors to all sorts of suggestions and circumstances, what would happen if there was a campaign by straight men to have gays banned from public toilets because they ‘feel uncomfortable’ if we start segregating one minority at the behest of the majority, where does it end?

This is true, speaking as a transperson myself though, it would make it a lot easier and safer for those earlier in transitioning.

I'm not talking about a room that literally says 'trans changing room' but perhaps an optional, no questions asked 'private changing room', and honestly, unless the place you are needing to get changed for is an old building, private changing rooms should be the preferred option.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Scarlett.

This is true, speaking as a transperson myself though, it would make it a lot easier and safer for those earlier in transitioning.

I'm not talking about a room that literally says 'trans changing room' but perhaps an optional, no questions asked 'private changing room', and honestly, unless the place you are needing to get changed for is an old building, private changing rooms should be the preferred option.

Personally, seeing as poll after poll shows the majority of women aren’t bothered by trans women having access to their spaces, maybe the ones that are should use a different bathroom seeing as they’re the ones who don’t want to interact or have to be around trans women

[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

The plus is unnecessary because there isn't anything apart from straight, homo, or bi.

But there is, and it's not for you to say there isn't

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

But there is, and it's not for you to say there isn't

How can there be? You're either attracted to the same sex, the opposite sex, or both. There's no "room" for any more, so no need for extra labels.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Okay then, so what’s your answer? Do we segregate trans people away from everyone else? Have bouncers do genital checks at toilet doors? Where is the line drawn aside from stripping people of their rights to live freely, like you’re claiming people are ‘trying’ to do to you?

It's just completely counterintuitive to the trans cause imo in fighting for rights to live freely and mocking cis women's right to their thoughts on THEIR spaces.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

But does it really matter that they're not the same? (assuming they're not the same, as gender goes far beyond physical characteristics) I mean, they're women, end of the story. She chose the words she has used to talk about it, so she can't be mad people felt hurt. Again, it didn't come off right.

Does it matter? Well, yes, if sex based rights are being challenged by self identification.

[Tom4784]

Happy birthday, JK!

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Liam-

The term woman isn’t being erased, that’s such a ridiculous myth it’s unreal.

I’ll ask you again, would you like trans woman to be banned from using the same spaces as you do? like public toilets, even though they’ve been allowed to do so for a long time, people who advocate for things like that aren’t trying to ‘protect women’s rights’ they’re trying to take right away from trans people

This is a good article thats worth a read...

https://www.economist.com/open-futur...-women-at-risk

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Personally, seeing as poll after poll shows the majority of women aren’t bothered by trans women having access to their spaces, maybe the ones that are should use a different bathroom seeing as they’re the ones who don’t want to interact or have to be around trans women

You seem to be fixated on the use of bathrooms or changing rooms which isn’t the major issue at all

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Scarlett.

The problem with self IDing is, you have to self ID for a while for the NHS to clear you for pretty much anything, its a catch 22 situations. It does however leave loopholes for people who want to use it for bad reasons.

Honestly, it would solve problems if they didn't make transpeople jump through 3000 hoops to get hormones.

They have to jump through hoops though to protect the person and also to protect the NHS from claims of neglect of duty of care

[Marsh.]

Yeah I imagine removing the "hoops" would cause even more issues. They are in place for a reason, not for the sake of it.

[Elliot]

Originally Posted by Cherie

This is a good article thats worth a read...

https://www.economist.com/open-futur...-women-at-risk

The article compares believing you’re trans with believing in god and forcing religion on people.. It highlights that the main dissonance with this discussion is that most gender critical people don’t believe trans identities are authentic and real and don’t trust them. They don’t actually believe trans women are women, otherwise they wouldn’t mind trans women in women only spaces. They insist on sex being real because they believe gender isn’t. Jk Rowling doesn’t see the validity in a trans persons identity and struggle, that’s why people are upset. This video explains a lot of the concerns of trans people I’m regards to this rhetoric and rebuttals far better than I could

Youtube video

[Oliver_W]

The hoops should be there tbh. Transition hormones can cause all sorts of health issues, so it's best that due diligence is taken by the doctors before they're prescribed. The NHS doesn't need endless lawsuits.

On the other end, you get people like Jessica Yaniv abusing the self-ID system. He shouldn't be used as a stick to beat actual transwomen with, but maybe a measuring stick to show what kind of creeps can trickle through.

[Scarlett.]

Yeah, waiting 3-4 years for the first appointment is absolutely, completely necessary, then waiting a further 2-3 years to be even considered for hormone treatment is such a clever idea.

Edit: Sorry for taking that tone, its just annoying, because you have to wait so long to be even seen by anyone