[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes I'm very embarrassed. I have better things to do than... this... so I will take my meandering posts elsewhere. It's going in circles and I have little to no interest in whatever this is.

Dont go we love you really.

Just dont talk about MLK if you dont know much about his life or the civil rights movement in general. You invoked him to make a really weak point. Yeah you should be embarrased but I doubt you are.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

the truth is that many of our elders grew up in much less diverse communities than we have today. For example, in the Great Plains area where I grew up, most people were of Scandinavian or Germanic extraction, so it was largely a “white bread” society. My feeling is that most elders aren’t racists; they simply aren’t used to interacting with people from different backgrounds. To make matters worse, dementia can cause an elder to lose their filter and become fearful, angry or agitated when confronted by a person or situation they are not completely comfortable with. This is the perfect storm for a derogatory quip and hurt feelings.

Now, elders are bound to interact with people who are Native American, Hispanic, and African American, and new immigrants from any number of countries, especially in a diversely staffed elder care setting. I was fortunate that both my parents greeted all their caregivers with open arms. However, I saw and heard many elders using racially charged language that was very disrespectful, to say the least. Again, it doesn’t necessarily mean these people were racist, although, of course, some are. Many have simply lost their short-term memory and whatever inhibitions they may have once had. So, when they see someone who is different from them, they blurt out names or stereotypes that they heard as youths, thus embarrassing everyone involved.

https://www.agingcare.com/articles/t...say-155103.htm

What relevance does this have?

This isn't a situation where a man "doesn't know how to communicate with people from different backgrounds" but chooses to be intentionally racist and hateful towards people of a different skin colour.

Coming out with bullsh*t excuses because he happens to be an older man is just ridiculous.

[Marsh.]

Wow, this thread makes mine and Kizzy's last disagreement fade into obscurity.

Phew!!

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

the truth is that many of our elders grew up in much less diverse communities than we have today. For example, in the Great Plains area where I grew up, most people were of Scandinavian or Germanic extraction, so it was largely a “white bread” society. My feeling is that most elders aren’t racists; they simply aren’t used to interacting with people from different backgrounds. To make matters worse, dementia can cause an elder to lose their filter and become fearful, angry or agitated when confronted by a person or situation they are not completely comfortable with. This is the perfect storm for a derogatory quip and hurt feelings.

Now, elders are bound to interact with people who are Native American, Hispanic, and African American, and new immigrants from any number of countries, especially in a diversely staffed elder care setting. I was fortunate that both my parents greeted all their caregivers with open arms. However, I saw and heard many elders using racially charged language that was very disrespectful, to say the least. Again, it doesn’t necessarily mean these people were racist, although, of course, some are. Many have simply lost their short-term memory and whatever inhibitions they may have once had. So, when they see someone who is different from them, they blurt out names or stereotypes that they heard as youths, thus embarrassing everyone involved.

https://www.agingcare.com/articles/t...say-155103.htm

There's no need to make excuses for the old man, he shouldn't have said the things he did

But then, people are making excuses for violence toward a feeble person, which is worse than offensive language, so blehh whatever.

[Tom4784]

The man wasn't so 'feeble' when he was racially abusing people and taking a swing at them. I'm also not making excuses for the two for retaliating but, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

If you're going to start a fight with someone, you can't expect the other side to not fight back.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The man wasn't so 'feeble' when he was racially abusing people and taking a swing at them. I'm also not making excuses for the two for retaliating but, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

If you're going to start a fight with someone, you can't expect the other side to not fight back.

His swing wasn't equal to their swing, he was no danger to them.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Do you think black people should be able to refer to each other using that word?

Do you feel like you're missing out?

It's none of your business.

Yeah, really missing out cause I love shouting racial obscenities at people.. get a grip!!

I can also make anything I want my business thanks..

And fgs what niahm?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Dont go we love you really.

Just dont talk about MLK if you dont know much about his life or the civil rights movement in general. You invoked him to make a really weak point. Yeah you should be embarrased but I doubt you are.

I would be embarrassed to have brought MLK into the thread, but I didn't bring MLK into the thread, I was the third person to enter that part of the discussion, mainly to refute something that I had misunderstood in the first place. I didn't invoke him to make any sort of point - it was Mr Trumpet, who was responded to by Slim, who I then responded to thinking he was making a point that he clarified he wasn't making. Maybe you mistakenly thought I made that first post?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

His swing wasn't equal to their swing, he was no danger to them.

He escalated things. If you swing at someone first, you cannot complain if they swing back, whether or not their force matches yours. If someone doesn't want to turn things violent then they shouldn't commit violent acts and then try to act like a victim when there's blowback.

Stupid games, stupid prizes.

[Parmy]

He might have been calling them cheeky monkeys to begin with..the clip is just not good enough to judge the situation correctly.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

There's no need to make excuses for the old man, he shouldn't have said the things he did

But then, people are making excuses for violence toward a feeble person, which is worse than offensive language, so blehh whatever.

Its not an excuse but its a possibility. I have had a lot of experience of Alzheimers that most member have not. I just put it out there as things like this are never as they are portrayed by one fuzzy video.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

If you're going to start a fight with someone, you can't expect the other side to not fight back.

I think you really can and should expect physically fit young men not to fight elderly people, mainly because there's a not-insignificant risk that they'll accidentally kill or cause permanent injury, but that's a whole separate debate in many ways.

[Tom4784]

The sheer display of mental gymnastics to defend this grotty racist is truly something.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I would be embarrassed to have brought MLK into the thread, but I didn't bring MLK into the thread, I was the third person to enter that part of the discussion, mainly to refute something that I had misunderstood in the first place. I didn't invoke him to make any sort of point - it was Mr Trumpet, who was responded to by Slim, who I then responded to thinking he was making a point that he clarified he wasn't making. Maybe you mistakenly thought I made that first post?

The person who bought MLK into the thread knew exactly what they were doing so I didnt bother replying to him. No point. You on the other hand invoked that great mans name inorder to make a quite stupid point. If I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong

[user104658]

Originally Posted by parmnion

He might have been calling them cheeky monkeys to begin with..the clip is just not good enough to judge the situation correctly.

I find that highly unlikely but in an ideal world yes I think we'd be better able to judge the situation if the video was longer. You can only go on what's actually there though, making assumptions either way about how it started is pointless.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think you really can and should expect physically fit young men not to fight elderly people, mainly because there's a not-insignificant risk that they'll accidentally kill or cause permanent injury, but that's a whole separate debate in many ways.

He shouldn't have started a fight he couldn't win. This situation begins and ends with his decision to racially abuse someone and elevate that situation to the point of violence.

Stupid games, stupid prizes.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The sheer display of mental gymnastics to defend this grotty racist is truly something.

There's a difference between defending his actions (which no-one is doing) and saying he shouldn't have been punched. There's no mental gymnastics involved in saying both people were in the wrong, but using unnecessary physical force is the more wrong.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I find that highly unlikely but in an ideal world yes I think we'd be better able to judge the situation if the video was longer. You can only go on what's actually there though, making assumptions either way about how it started is pointless.

What is there?

What I see is a bloke lashing out because he was feeling harassed, his temper got the better of him, but I'm like you, the 2 young punks overstepped the mark by assaulting the elderly gentleman..

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by parmnion

What is there?

What I see is a bloke lashing out because he was feeling harassed, his temper got the better of him, but I'm like you, the 2 young punks overstepped the mark by assaulting the elderly gentleman..

Him throwing the first punch was self defence?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

There's a difference between defending his actions (which no-one is doing) and saying he shouldn't have been punched. There's no mental gymnastics involved in saying both people were in the wrong, but using unnecessary physical force is the more wrong.

Well, there were posts above you that were literally making out that he could have Alzeimers or that he called them 'cheeky monkeys' and that was just interpreted as racism so...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

The person who bought MLK into the thread knew exactly what they were doing so I didnt bother replying to him. No point. You on the other hand invoked that great mans name inorder to make a quite stupid point. If I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong

I incorrectly thought that Slim was inferring that MLK would have advocated for a more violent form of activism if he had had forewarning about things that would happen later, when from what I do know about the Civil Rights Movement I'm very much under the impression that he was well aware of how things were likely to go and made specific choices when it came to the rights and wrongs of violent retaliation, and the effects it would have.

I accept that that wasn't actually what Slim was saying and I misconstrued his post... but if I'm wrong in the above thinking then also let me know? I can admit that I don't know vast amounts about it.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Him throwing the first punch was self defence?

His racially abusing people on a bus was actually him being harassed? The hoops people will jump through....

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Him throwing the first punch was self defence?

It could be argued that they had left the bus, but then came back on the bus so he felt he had to defend himself

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

There's a difference between defending his actions (which no-one is doing) and saying he shouldn't have been punched. There's no mental gymnastics involved in saying both people were in the wrong, but using unnecessary physical force is the more wrong.

Well now we're just all over the place because I don't actually think the unnecessary physical response is "more" wrong than the racism... more that it was a wrong cherry plopped on top of the already very wrong pie. A garnish of bad decision making in the heat of the moment.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by parmnion

It could be argued that they had left the bus, but then came back on the bus so he felt he had to defend himself

Let me add that to my list of excuses.

He threw the first punch but was defending himself. I cant get that one to work in my head.