[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm not creating anything, you simply have an incorrect assumption of what the outcome of this case means.

Very little would overcome Amber Heard appropriating rape stories to make herself look like a victim and basically goading Johnny Depp by telling him no one would believe him on tape. Neither are the actions of victims. The fact that we know that Depp tried to remedy the situation while Heard tried to keep things as they were is another strike against her.

Would you be defending Amber Heard's action if she was a man that had lied about being raped? That had told a woman that no one would believe her if she went public with what he had done? I don't think so. The difference is my opinion would remain the same regardless.

I don't really disagree with any of what you're saying but I just think it's SUCH a messy situation, and they both very clearly have such significant personal demons, that it's pretty much impossible to pass any sort of moral judgement on the situation. I doubt we know even a fraction of the story, even when it comes to the circumstances of the recording.

Again I just feel quite sad for both of them because whether it's sad-looking Depp or grinning and smug looking Heard in the tabloid pictures, all I can see is two very unhappy individuals who were in a toxic mess of a relationship. I'm not trying to excuse either of them or make out that they're equal, just that it's so messy that there's little point trying to unravel it.

That probably applies to every personal relationship of course, but I think this one is especially murky, with the back-and-forth and the fact that they were blatantly both high as kites on coke while most of this was going on.

[Ammi]

...o have to say that I haven’t watched anything../...read anything regarding their relationship...other than vague things on here that were skim read when the trial was happening....but even if there are vids etc...they can be edited and manipulated, so we don’t know any context to the relationship at all...?...which is why I’m reluctant to comment, other than on the court ruling with the law suit and the at least 12 abuses proven truth...

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No ta

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm not creating anything, you simply have an incorrect assumption of what the outcome of this case means.

Very little would overcome Amber Heard appropriating rape stories to make herself look like a victim and basically goading Johnny Depp by telling him no one would believe him on tape. Neither are the actions of victims. The fact that we know that Depp tried to remedy the situation while Heard tried to keep things as they were is another strike against her.

Would you be defending Amber Heard's action if she was a man that had lied about being raped? That had told a woman that no one would believe her if she went public with what he had done? I don't think so. The difference is my opinion would remain the same regardless.

Nope, she definitely would not.

[user104658]

Dezzy and Marsh being closet MGTOW. 2020 is the year that keeps on giving. This is up there with the time we found out that Kizzy is actually a PickMe agent of the patriarchy... Who knows what she's up to in this thread .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Dezzy and Marsh being closet MGTOW. 2020 is the year that keeps on giving. This is up there with the time we found out that Kizzy is actually a PickMe agent of the patriarchy... Who knows what she's up to in this thread .

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Dezzy and Marsh being closet MGTOW. 2020 is the year that keeps on giving. This is up there with the time we found out that Kizzy is actually a PickMe agent of the patriarchy... Who knows what she's up to in this thread .

Sis, don't. I hate MRAs

[Ammi]

...I guess that this is things that people were already aware of but I’ll post the link anyway for anyone who might want to read as it’s the incidents said in court so obviously relevant...it definitely seems to have been a very complicated and layered relationship with a huge amount of toxicity of being each other’s Kryptonite...of all of the gin joints in the world, they should have never walked into each other’s... although it’s never really clear exactly what each ‘incident’ was, they both seem to concur that there was an incident as early as their honeymoon...it’s hard to believe that there wouldn’t have been things before though...that it wasn’t ‘suddenly on the honeymoon, out of the blue...’...and they’re not claiming that to be the case anyway, either...that the ‘honeymoon incident’ was in some way a shock/revelation for either...I think that in truth with the alcohol/substance abuse/medication etc involved with these ‘incidents’...neither can really say..’this is what happened/how it was...’....because that clarity just wouldn’t be there for either of them...although I do feel that there was some clarity there for both of them as well, possibly....and I also don’t necessarily believe ‘lies/manipulation/twisting’ etc from either of them with the incidents containing abuse, I do think that it’s more that their ‘truth’ just isn’t the same obviously, they’re recalling differently some very drug/alcohol added, very charged with emotion and sometimes, violence, specific incidents....but both feeling that they’re relating ‘truth’....for something not to be truth, doesn’t necessarily indicate a ‘liar’ or a manipulator etc...

...anyways, the article...

https://news.sky.com/story/johnny-de...trial-12037339

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm not creating anything, you simply have an incorrect assumption of what the outcome of this case means.

Very little would overcome Amber Heard appropriating rape stories to make herself look like a victim and basically goading Johnny Depp by telling him no one would believe him on tape. Neither are the actions of victims. The fact that we know that Depp tried to remedy the situation while Heard tried to keep things as they were is another strike against her.

Would you be defending Amber Heard's action if she was a man that had lied about being raped? That had told a woman that no one would believe her if she went public with what he had done? I don't think so. The difference is my opinion would remain the same regardless.

What presumption have I placed on the meaning of the outcome of the case?...
She was not on trial was she? Whatever anyone thinks of her it has no baring on the outcome of the case here.

I find it interesting that these 'strikes' are only against her and the findings of the case in her favour is not seen as a strike for Depp. .. He is still seen as the victim by you.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What presumption have I placed on the meaning of the outcome of the case?...
She was not on trial was she? Whatever anyone thinks of her it has no baring on the outcome of the case here.

I find it interesting that these 'strikes' are only against her and the findings of the case in her favour is not seen as a strike for Depp. .. He is still seen as the victim by you.

The assumption that this case's outcome clears Heard and places all the blame on Depp, which is evidenced by you branding any criticism of Heard as 'mysoginistic trolling'.

It doesn't matter if she was on trial or not, I've always referred to the evidence we know of, her own recorded words and the fact she's twisted enough to co-opt someone else's trauma for her own use, as well as the fact that it was Depp that reached out for help, not her.

Evidence is evidence, Kizzy, and to me it screams wanton emotional, mental and coercive abuse. You keep trying to make this about gender but the truth is my opinion would remain the same if the genders were flipped. Hell, I'm typically far more supporting of women then I am men which is why, when this story first came about, I was completely supportive of Heard and I believed her without question.

I don't think Johnny Depp is innocent, but I think if anyone is a victim of abuse and they lash out, it's not right, but it's understandable. As I said before, I wouldn't condemn a woman for doing the same so I can't condemn a man if that's the case because that would be hypocrisy.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The assumption that this case's outcome clears Heard and places all the blame on Depp, which is evidenced by you branding any criticism of Heard as 'mysoginistic trolling'.

It doesn't matter if she was on trial or not, I've always referred to the evidence we know of, her own recorded words and the fact she's twisted enough to co-opt someone else's trauma for her own use, as well as the fact that it was Depp that reached out for help, not her.

Evidence is evidence, Kizzy, and to me it screams wanton emotional, mental and coercive abuse. You keep trying to make this about gender but the truth is my opinion would remain the same if the genders were flipped. Hell, I'm typically far more supporting of women then I am men which is why, when this story first came about, I was completely supportive of Heard and I believed her without question.

I don't think Johnny Depp is innocent, but I think if anyone is a victim of abuse and they lash out, it's not right, but it's understandable. As I said before, I wouldn't condemn a woman for doing the same so I can't condemn a man if that's the case because that would be hypocrisy.

If you look at my posts in this thread I clearly haven't placed all the blame on one person in the relationship.
I don't keep trying to make this about gender, you have however by suggesting my feelings on rape would be different for men...you have no reason whatsoever to suggest that.
You've taken the accusations by one person and one comment used that as a basis to suggest all manner of character flaws as well as to absolve Depp of any culpability.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you look at my posts in this thread I clearly haven't placed all the blame on one person in the relationship.
I don't keep trying to make this about gender, you have however by suggesting my feelings on rape would be different for men...you have no reason whatsoever to suggest that.
You've taken the accusations by one person and one comment used that as a basis to suggest all manner of character flaws as well as to absolve Depp of any culpability.

I have literally said that Johnny Depp is not blameless multiple times. Pay attention.

You do make it about gender though, you suggested having a negative opinion about Heard was mysoginistic trolling, you're downplaying her actions in this post and bypassing all the **** she's done.

I've never said Depp was without blame, but that I can't completely condemn him since I wouldn't do so if it was a woman in his shoes.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I have literally said that Johnny Depp is not blameless multiple times. Pay attention.

You do make it about gender though, you suggested having a negative opinion about Heard was mysoginistic trolling, you're downplaying her actions in this post and bypassing all the **** she's done.

I've never said Depp was without blame, but that I can't completely condemn him since I wouldn't do so if it was a woman in his shoes.

I am paying attention.. (by the way this derogatory language isn't doing you any favours here)
They are both to blame yes and there is evidence of shocking behaviour on both sides, I see that's acknowledged but only Heard is getting tarred as an evil psycho. .
You are likening Depp to a victim and that's just not the case..literally.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I am paying attention.. (by the way this derogatory language isn't doing you any favours here)
They are both to blame yes and there is evidence of shocking behaviour on both sides, I see that's acknowledged but only Heard is getting tarred as an evil psycho. .
You are likening Depp to a victim and that's just not the case..literally.

Leave the pearls out of it, Kizzy, claiming offense doesn't give your argument weight.

Neither are blameless but if you were being honest with yourself and saw the forest for the trees, it would be very difficult to both sides this given what we know of Amber Heard. Be real with me, Kizzy, would you honestly hold the same opinion you have for this case if the genders were reversed?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Leave the pearls out of it, Kizzy, claiming offense doesn't give your argument weight.

Neither are blameless but if you were being honest with yourself and saw the forest for the trees, it would be very difficult to both sides this given what we know of Amber Heard. Be real with me, Kizzy, would you honestly hold the same opinion you have for this case if the genders were reversed?

Again with the silly sexist comment, theres no weight to be had in this debate as we're not debating anything factual, this is my opinion...why would it need 'weight'?
I find your use of language to describe only one party in this case that as you admit are both guilty of abuse one sided and verging on what I would consider misogyny.
it's you obsessed with gender Dezzy not me. I would of course be the same but you accusing me of bias only serves to detract from your own here obviously.

[arista]

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You are likening Depp to a victim and that's just not the case..literally.

Coming from the person calling any valid criticism of Heard "misogynistic".

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Coming from the person calling any valid criticism of Heard "misogynistic".

Yes coming from me. The case found he was literally not the victim.
The criticism may be valid to you...however IN MY OPINION it isn't. I find the use of language in the posts misogynistic. If you don't agree/ like that let it be known, I don't care.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Again with the silly sexist comment, theres no weight to be had in this debate as we're not debating anything factual, this is my opinion...why would it need 'weight'?
I find your use of language to describe only one party in this case that as you admit are both guilty of abuse one sided and verging on what I would consider misogyny.
it's you obsessed with gender Dezzy not me. I would of course be the same but you accusing me of bias only serves to detract from your own here obviously.

I use the pearl necklace remark against anyone who clutches at offense as an argument, Parmnion, LT and a bunch of other male members can attest to that. Your latest attempt to paint me, of all people, as a sexist is as much of a failure as your other attempts.

Instead of flailing by screeching about how much of a sexist I am for not agreeing with you, how about you actually try to argue against what I'm saying for once instead of the 'no, u' response that is your last paragraph. It's childish and pathetic and it has no basis on anything, considering my whole argument is that my opinion would be the same regardless of gender since it's based on actions and evidence, while you screech about misogynistic trolling if people have a negative view of an abuser.

All in all, this is a pathetic attempt at a rebuttal by you, Kizzy. You ignore what I'm saying to push a narrative that has no bearing on my argument. Try actually reading what I'm saying for once instead of picking parts you can feign offence at for clout.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I use the pearl necklace remark against anyone who clutches at offense as an argument, Parmnion, LT and a bunch of other male members can attest to that. Your latest attempt to paint me, of all people, as a sexist is as much of a failure as your other attempts.

Instead of flailing by screeching about how much of a sexist I am for not agreeing with you, how about you actually try to argue against what I'm saying for once instead of the 'no, u' response that is your last paragraph. It's childish and pathetic and it has no basis on anything, considering my whole argument is that my opinion would be the same regardless of gender since it's based on actions and evidence, while you screech about misogynistic trolling if people have a negative view of an abuser.

All in all, this is a pathetic attempt at a rebuttal by you, Kizzy. You ignore what I'm saying to push a narrative that has no bearing on my argument. Try actually reading what I'm saying for once instead of picking parts you can feign offence to for clout.

I gave up at flailing and screeching.... I've made my point. I see you don't agree, that's not my issue.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I gave up at flailing and screeching.... I've made my point. I see you don't agree, that's not my issue.

You don't have a point aside from accusing people of being misogynistic if they don't happen to agree with you.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You don't have a point aside from accusing people of being misogynistic if they don't happen to agree with you.

Like them or not I've had points in this thread. It's not a direct accusation, it's an opinion based on my perception of some posts.
Whether anyone agrees with me or not is irrelevant.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Like them or not I've had points in this thread. It's not a direct accusation, it's an opinion based on my perception of some posts.
Whether anyone agrees with me or not is irrelevant.

Nah, you don't get to hide behind 'it's an opinion!', you threw baseless accusations around and now you're gonna have to deal with the fact you've been made to look foolish for it. You tried to silence criticism of Amber Heard by branding it misogynistic, you accused me of sexism simply because you are incapable of arguing against what I'm saying and you are simply not mature enough to admit it so you threw your toys out of your pram.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Nah, you don't get to hide behind 'it's an opinion!', you threw baseless accusations around and now you're gonna have to deal with the fact you've been made to look foolish for it. You tried to silence criticism of Amber Heard by branding it misogynistic, you accused me of sexism simply because you are incapable of arguing against what I'm saying and you are simply not mature enough to admit it so you threw your toys out of your pram.

I do, I get to voice my opinion on things as I see them. You becoming increasingly frustrated by that is not my fault.
I suggest you accept that's how I see it and move on.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes coming from me. The case found he was literally not the victim.
The criticism may be valid to you...however IN MY OPINION it isn't. I find the use of language in the posts misogynistic.

She says... without pointing out what exactly is misogynistic. Because it's not there and she got ahead of herself trying to act the feminist.

The case was entirely based on ONE article that featured in the Sun, it was NEVER a domestic abuse trial. For you to suggest it paints the entire story of their abusive relationship is disingenuous. Depp does not need to be a victim for me to say that Heard was not one either.

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you don't agree/ like that let it be known, I don't care.

Kind of sad that you have to be told over and over and over, I don't need you to care to respond to posts you make on a public forum. Are you processing that?
Respond, don't respond, care, don't care. It's not going to stop anyone posting when and where they see fit on a public forum.

You're welcome.