[Ammi]

...Mary Shelley, I meant...both Mary’s obviously...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Exactly, I don't think the woman herself would be very impressed either, besides the nakedness it's a bloody ugly statue. I didn't know either that her daughter was Mary Shelly, could have been nice to depict them together.

Yeah that's true, both brilliant women

[bots]

the sculptor was making a statement with the statue rather than letting the persons life, that the statue depicts, make the statement

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the sculptor was making a statement with the statue rather than letting the persons life, that the statue depicts, make the statement

That's the thing though, it's like when Angela Raynor called that/those Tory MP/s scum, her doing so became the entire story. It took the narrative away, and all people were talking about was that she said a nasty word :eyeroll:

The statue does the same, it turns Wollstonecraft into "that woman with the naked statue" instead of who and what she is and achieved.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I think that she died in childbirth with Mary or shortly after, Kaz...

Oh ,that's sad ,I do suppose this has us talking about her more, I knew nothing about her.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

That's the thing though, it's like when Angela Raynor called that/those Tory MP/s scum, her doing so became the entire story. It took the narrative away, and all people were talking about was that she said a nasty word :eyeroll:

The statue does the same, it turns Wollstonecraft into "that woman with the naked statue" instead of who and what she is and achieved.

Yes,this exactly.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the sculptor was making a statement with the statue rather than letting the persons life, that the statue depicts, make the statement

Quite right Bots, and her life was about feminism, which (as we know) is mostly about boobies and vaginas and other associated lady paraphernalia.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I've never said you can never depict a naked female, I've just said I didn't think in this case it was the right call, I think it detracts from the woman it's supposed to represent and takes focus off her achievements.

I don't. .. that's the thing about art I guess it's all about interpretation.

The attitude towards a naked female body from women describing themselves as feminists tells me her achievements may have been more progressive than ours.

[Tom4784]

It's the fact that it looks unfinished that bothers me the most, like they got a lump of metal, chiselled out a woman at the top and then called it a day.

Like you could have taken that and then chiselled out Mary writing and the naked woman could be flowing out of the pages and be seen as the artistic impression of freedom through her words, or something.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't. .. that's the thing about art I guess it's all about interpretation.

The attitude towards a naked female body from women describing themselves as feminists tells me her achievements may have been more progressive than ours.

Sorry, can you explain what you mean by this? Are you saying I'm not a feminist because I think this Statue is not an appropriate way to commemorate Mary Wollstonecraft? (I may have misunderstood your point here.....I hope I did )

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't. .. that's the thing about art I guess it's all about interpretation.

The attitude towards a naked female body from women describing themselves as feminists tells me her achievements may have been more progressive than ours.

Depicting a great historical intellect in the form of a fertility statue that suggests the standout feature of a woman is that she's "a birther and a nurser" isn't progressive, it's a misfire. Unless it's supposed to be ironic?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Sorry, can you explain what you mean by this? Are you saying I'm not a feminist because I think this Statue is not an appropriate way to commemorate Mary Wollstonecraft? (I may have misunderstood your point here.....I hope I did )

Not Woke Enough as usual Niamh. 21st century feminism is about empowered sex work, titty statues and consensually choking on ****. Take THAT, patriarchy!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There she goes again, Ms. Patriarchy telling women that the only way to empower themselves is to cater to the male gaze

Not at all.. my point is we can't be truly progressive in the way she would have wanted if we are terrified of our bodies and refuse to expose it out of fear.
That for me is peak patriarchy, don't show your raw self that's what the suggestions that it detracts from her work show me.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Not Woke Enough as usual Niamh. 21st century feminism is about empowered sex work, titty statues and consensually choking on ****. Take THAT, patriarchy!

It's depressing

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Depicting a great historical intellect in the form of a fertility statue that suggests the standout feature of a woman is that she's "a birther and a nurser" isn't progressive, it's a misfire. Unless it's supposed to be ironic?

Is that how you see a naked female as nothing but a walking womb? That's a shame.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Not at all.. my point is we can't be truly progressive in the way she would have wanted if we are terrified of our bodies and refuse to expose it out of fear.
That for me is peak patriarchy, don't show your raw self that's what the suggestions that it detracts from her work show me.

How on earth did you get "we're terrified of our bodies" from any of the posts on this thread though?

[Ammi]

....one of the things that the sculpture has said is...


“As far as I know, she’s more or less the shape we’d all like to be.”


....that really doesn’t sit well at all with me ...with so many young females having low body image...

[Ammi]

...this is Maggi Hambling’s sculpture of Oscar Wilde at Charing Cross...just for interest...

[Niamh.]

And it would have been weird to have a statue commemorating Oscar Wild in the nude as well.........but that would never happen anyway

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Not at all.. my point is we can't be truly progressive in the way she would have wanted if we are terrified of our bodies and refuse to expose it out of fear.

Literally nothing to do with people's issue with this statue, but the fact that you think it IS the issue is why you're so keen to be on that side of this argument, I suspect.

Most people have no problem with statues or art that depict nudity of females, males, or both at once. Heck, it would even be a different discussion if she had made or commissioned a statue herself. However IMO it only takes a brief skim of what she actually wrote about to cast doubt on this artists' decision being appropriate to the subject.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Is that how you see a naked female as nothing but a walking womb? That's a shame.

Obviously that is what I said, yes.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Literally nothing to do with people's issue with this statue, but the fact that you think it IS the issue is why you're so keen to be on that side of this argument, I suspect.

Most people have no problem with statues or art that depict nudity of females, males, or both at once. Heck, it would even be a different discussion if she had made or commissioned a statue herself. However IMO it only takes a brief skim of what she actually wrote about to cast doubt on this artists' decision being appropriate to the subject.

Exactly. The issue with this statue is it's an inappropriate and disrespectful way to honour this woman and it would never be done to a male "thinker"

I am absolutely comfortable with nude art/statues in general

[Ammi]

Writer Caitlin Moran claimed a better representation of a naked "everywoman" would be of "Wollstonecraft dying, at 38, in childbirth, as so many women did back then - ending her revolutionary work."

Writer Tracy King tweeted: "There is no reason to depict Mary naked unless you are trying to be edgy to provoke debate.
"Statues of named men get to be clothed because the focus is on their work and achievements.
"Meanwhile, women walking or jogging through parks experience high rates of sexual harassment because our bodies are considered public property."

Historian Simon Schama wrote that he "always wanted a fine monument to Wollstonecraft - this isn't it".

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

....one of the things that the sculpture has said is...


“As far as I know, she’s more or less the shape we’d all like to be.”


....that really doesn’t sit well at all with me ...with so many young females having low body image...

At the most basic level, it's just absolute nonsense to suggest that everyone has the same body ideal, or even close to it .

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...this is Maggi Hambling’s sculpture of Oscar Wilde at Charing Cross...just for interest...

That's awful, I can barely even tell what it's meant to be.

Modern Art is repulsive.