[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

No that was Stupid
2 weeks is not long enough


Keir got it so wrong.

At the time it was called for, not just by Starmer but the science too.
With schools off at the time too.

It was far from stupid.

Whether the effect would have been much better is open to debate.
However that's the time it should have been done.
In line with the science calling for it to be and that call being supported by Starmer.

They then HAD to do a longer one later after Johnson's usual procrastination and indecision.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I’m not excusing anything I asked you what country in Europe has succeeded in eradicating the virus, and you haven’t responded, even Germany which practically survived the first wave is struggling

Oh Cherie,lol its just a great excuse for some to bash a government who have had the nads to take Brexit through, to blame one man for all this is frankly stupid , its an unknown to everyone, no country has this under control, plus the advice has been laid out and people still don't get it,then throw their dummies out when things don't go their way.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Oh Cherie,lol its just a great excuse for some to bash a government who have had the nads to take Brexit through, to blame one man for all this is frankly stupid , its an unknown to everyone, no country has this under control, plus the advice has been laid out and people still don't get it,then throw their dummies out when things don't go their way.

Honestly that is pathetic sorry to say to attack people for this government's disastrous handling of this pandemic, to accuse them of being against a brexit Cabinet.

Ignore all you like the times this PM has dismissed scientific and health advice.
Have presided over a still rising and shocking deaths total, only on numbers within 28 days of diagnosis too.

How many have died more than 28 days later.

People have lost loved ones in the thousands,hundreds of thousands grieving families, friends, workmates and neighbours.

Yet you summarise as it's those against brexit.
Honestly it beggars belief.

I'll get jumped on for saying this, I've lost 4 special people from my life to this hateful virus and in part due to this government's incompetence too.
I don't want to lose any more.
That's why I attack their failure, nothing to do with brexit.

Which actually they're making it seems at present , a right pig's ear of that too for the UK anyway, since YOU bring it up.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

No other European Country is going into tier 4 five days before Christmas after the leader saying that he didn't want to ruin peoples Christmas.

That's the crux of it..

He didnt want to, but in the end had to to save lives.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Honestly that is pathetic sorry to say to attack people for this government's disastrous handling of this pandemic, to accuse them of being against a brexit Cabinet.

Ignore all you like the times this PM has dismissed scientific and health advice.
Have presided over a still rising and shocking deaths total, only on numbers within 28 days of diagnosis too.

How many have died more than 28 days later.

People have lost loved ones in the thousands,hundreds of thousands grieving families, friends, workmates and neighbours.

Yet you summarise as it's those against brexit.
Honestly it beggars belief.

I'll get jumped on for saying this, I've lost 4 special people from my life to this hateful virus and in part due to this government's incompetence too.
I don't want to lose any more.
That's why I attack their failure, nothing to do with brexit.

Which actually they're making it seems at present , a right pig's ear of that too for the UK anyway, since YOU bring it up.

It's baffling that anyone thinks Boris is doing a good job, he isn't even trying his best . His leadership skills are abysmal , he's put people in more confusion and risked their health drastically .

He's gone back and forth more times than a yo-yo . And now there's tier 4 just when we thought things couldn't get any worse

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

It's baffling that anyone thinks Boris is doing a good job, he isn't even trying his best . His leadership skills are abysmal , he's put people in more confusion and risked their health drastically .

He's gone back and forth more times than a yo-yo . And now there's tier 4 just when we thought things couldn't get any worse

They are scared to admit their own party ****ed so they use rule breakers as scapegoats. It’s just not sinking into some people that the choices the gov did had consequences and none of that can be blamed on rule breakers because they don’t make decisions to close the boarders or the schools or even decide to have a lockdown.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

It's baffling that anyone thinks Boris is doing a good job, he isn't even trying his best . His leadership skills are abysmal , he's put people in more confusion and risked their health drastically .

He's gone back and forth more times than a yo-yo . And now there's tier 4 just when we thought things couldn't get any worse

Exactly right.

It's insulting to those who've lost loved ones to belittle and dismiss it as yet more brexit divisions.

REALLY I have to stop commenting on covid threads.
People just make me furious at their cold dismissive attitude to others losses, while racing to defend the man and government who should be protecting all.
Not presiding over rising death rates even on manipulated figures from said man and government.

It's unbelievable the lengths taken to defend this bunch of incompetents we're meant to be able to trust.

I don't care who was PM or or which party in government, if they'd performed as dangerously and incompetently as this lot have.
I'd be slating them just as I rightly am these.

Because when a public inquiry does come, if it's done correctly and SEEN to be done correctly, the evidence building against this lots dangerous practices, will I hope result in shame for this PM, his Ministers and their hard-line supporters too.

[Cherie]

Not one person on here has said he has done a good job, its interesting that the devolved leaders who signed off on the 5 day madness relaxation are getting no flak at all, when if something goes well they are held up as beacons of shining examples but fly under the radar when it all goes tits up, looking at shoppers in Central London on tv over the past week even without the new strain, Christmas was always going to be difficult to navigate

Tier 4 is lockdown GH, just a less threatening name

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by LukeB

They are scared to admit their own party ****ed so they use rule breakers as scapegoats. It’s just not sinking into some people that the choices the gov did had consequences and none of that can be blamed on rule breakers because they don’t make decisions to close the boarders or the schools or even decide to have a lockdown.

I don’t have a party

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

At the time it was called for, not just by Starmer but the science too.
With schools off at the time too.

It was far from stupid.

Whether the effect would have been much better is open to debate.
However that's the time it should have been done.
In line with the science calling for it to be and that call being supported by Starmer.

They then HAD to do a longer one later after Johnson's usual procrastination and indecision.

Sure at that time,
but now 2 weeks is seen as not long enough.

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Honestly that is pathetic sorry to say to attack people for this government's disastrous handling of this pandemic, to accuse them of being against a brexit Cabinet.

Ignore all you like the times this PM has dismissed scientific and health advice.
Have presided over a still rising and shocking deaths total, only on numbers within 28 days of diagnosis too.

How many have died more than 28 days later.

People have lost loved ones in the thousands,hundreds of thousands grieving families, friends, workmates and neighbours.

Yet you summarise as it's those against brexit.
Honestly it beggars belief.

I'll get jumped on for saying this, I've lost 4 special people from my life to this hateful virus and in part due to this government's incompetence too.
I don't want to lose any more.
That's why I attack their failure, nothing to do with brexit.

Which actually they're making it seems at present , a right pig's ear of that too for the UK anyway, since YOU bring it up.

Great post Joey! As I said before people are rightfully annoyed and angry with how it’s been handled as it’s been mentally exhausting to deal with, just wish I could just move to Australia or New Zealand where it’s much safer there.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Honestly that is pathetic sorry to say to attack people for this government's disastrous handling of this pandemic, to accuse them of being against a brexit Cabinet.

Ignore all you like the times this PM has dismissed scientific and health advice.
Have presided over a still rising and shocking deaths total, only on numbers within 28 days of diagnosis too.

How many have died more than 28 days later.

People have lost loved ones in the thousands,hundreds of thousands grieving families, friends, workmates and neighbours.

Yet you summarise as it's those against brexit.
Honestly it beggars belief.

I'll get jumped on for saying this, I've lost 4 special people from my life to this hateful virus and in part due to this government's incompetence too.
I don't want to lose any more.
That's why I attack their failure, nothing to do with brexit.

Which actually they're making it seems at present , a right pig's ear of that too for the UK anyway, since YOU bring it up.

I knew you would not agree Joey,but this is how i see it ,what does he have to gain by causing anger amongst people who probably voted for him ? he didn't stand a chance really as soon as he became PM he got called for wanting Brexit,then this pandemic took hold so those that already hated him had something else to have a go at him for,I am sure he has done what he has been advised to do aswell as trying to keep Christmas for us,but it obviously cant happen so now the hammer has been brought down,that's not good enough either, he cant please everyone all of the time ,none of them can, and crowds are still protesting about its a made up virus !!! I for one feel sorry for him,I really would not want his job, would you ?Anyway you stay safe

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Thus far it's thought to be individually just as effective against all currently known strains of Covid. The issue is that faster spread = more people need to be vaccinated for effective herd immunity (the first step to driving a virus out of circulation). But a vaccinated person (assuming it's effective and assuming they produce an immune response - remember that 5% to 10% of people won't) should be just as protected from this strain as they were from OG Covid.

Worth remembering that there were already multiple strains I suppose, and that the "Europe strain" (the one that most of Europe and the US have, thought to originate in Italy) was already faster-spreading than the original Chinese strain.

We don't know much about the newly discovered strain yet; there's always the possibility that it's weaker (in terms of symptoms and outcomes) than previous strains.

I actually did not know about the 5 to 10% of people won't produce an immune response to the Vaccine, it makes sense, it's just I didn't think about it before.

And yeah hopefully the new strain is weaker.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

At the time it was called for, not just by Starmer but the science too.
With schools off at the time too.

It was far from stupid.

Whether the effect would have been much better is open to debate.
However that's the time it should have been done.
In line with the science calling for it to be and that call being supported by Starmer.

They then HAD to do a longer one later after Johnson's usual procrastination and indecision.

Tbh Joey I honestly don't get why Boris and many of the other leaders around the world keep ignoring Scientists on a field that they will know far more about than most Political leaders or average joe off the street will ever know.

It's ludicrous.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Tbh Joey I honestly don't get why Boris and many of the other leaders around the world keep ignoring Scientists on a field that they will no far more about than most Political leaders or average joe off the street will ever know.

It's ludicrous.

How do you know they are ignoring them Mocky ? I doubt very much they are as this uturn was brought on by scientific advice.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by parmnion

That's the crux of it..

He didnt want to, but in the end had to to save lives.

Well then he should've done it a week ago imo as he was warned.

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Well then he should've done it a week ago imo as he was warned.

Well really we shouldn’t have left lockdown 2 because the cases were still high and it wasn’t really safe to do so and leaving the schools open was never going to help. Relaxing rules in December just screamed danger to me. Maybe if we entered lockdown 2 way earlier and had the schools shut so basically like lockdown 1 maybe we would have been much better.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

How do you know they are ignoring them Mocky ? I doubt very much they are as this uturn was brought on by scientific advice.

As Joey's said earlier, the Scientists wanted this lockdown a week or two ago and Boris turned it down.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by LukeB

Well really we shouldn’t have left lockdown 2 because the cases were still high and it wasn’t really safe to do so and leaving the schools open was never going to help. Relaxing rules in December just screamed danger to me. Maybe if we entered lockdown 2 way earlier and had the schools shut so basically like lockdown 1 maybe we would have been much better.

I agree with you Luke.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I knew you would not agree Joey,but this is how i see it ,what does he have to gain by causing anger amongst people who probably voted for him ? he didn't stand a chance really as soon as he became PM he got called for wanting Brexit,then this pandemic took hold so those that already hated him had something else to have a go at him for,I am sure he has done what he has been advised to do aswell as trying to keep Christmas for us,but it obviously cant happen so now the hammer has been brought down,that's not good enough either, he cant please everyone all of the time ,none of them can, and crowds are still protesting about its a made up virus !!! I for one feel sorry for him,I really would not want his job, would you ?Anyway you stay safe

I doubt it helps to just accuse those who see his failures as just brexit moaners as you did then.

He's ignored scientific advice as to the first lockdown, the circuit breaker, then the second lockdown done eventually.

Ignored the failures on the testing chaos he's presided over.

The deaths of those in care homes.
With inadequate testing all through the first months of even the first lockdown

He was told 5 days relaxation over Christmas, by health experts, it would lead to funerals in February.
He pressed on regardless.
Now has been shamed again and forced to cut it to only 1 day.
While now needing even more severe measures to deal with it.

If you consider that success and something to applaud then honestly, God help us.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

As Joey's said earlier, the Scientists wanted this lockdown a week or two ago and Boris turned it down.

How do you know that for certain,was it in the press ?

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

How do you know that for certain,was it in the press ?

Sage scientists and the NHS have all been saying that the relaxation over christmas would lead to a huge surge in January. They were very vocal about it

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LukeB

Well really we shouldn’t have left lockdown 2 because the cases were still high and it wasn’t really safe to do so and leaving the schools open was never going to help. Relaxing rules in December just screamed danger to me. Maybe if we entered lockdown 2 way earlier and had the schools shut so basically like lockdown 1 maybe we would have been much better.

Frankly, if the newer strain was already seeded (likely) then it would have made very little difference as even one or two rogue cases would have started to spread quickly as soon as restrictions were lessened. Unless you're talking a full lockdown until 70+% of the population is vaccinated, which realistically will be 2022, and thus impossible.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Sage scientists and the NHS have all been saying that the relaxation over christmas would lead to a huge surge in January. They were very vocal about it

I mean... Common sense was saying that from the moment it was announced. One occasion where I think the "who needs experts?" nonsense actually does apply. Not because the experts aren't right, but because my 11 year old could have predicted that .

I still say a surge peak would come mid February though. People would be sat at the end of Jan saying "pfft, what surge?" and then it would creep in the back door like "Hello sorry I'm late!"

[user104658]

Conspiracy theory time; there is no super infectious new strain. They realised that easing lockdown over Christmas would be a disaster but the cat was out of the bag, people wouldn't have accepted it being snatched back without good reason. Enter rumours of a terrifying "new strain", goodbye Christmas gatherings.

I'm not saying this is the case but... Well... It's not the most far fetched idea that's ever slapped my mind.

The timing is sus, and the amount of information they apparently have about the spread stats of this newly identified strain are oddly specific.