[LeatherTrumpet]

Youtube video

YCNMIU

[DouglasS]

Churchill is the greatest leader this country has ever seen, and he bought us through the world war, why on earth is this great time in history being banned

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by DouglasS

Churchill is the greatest leader this country has ever seen, and he bought us through the world war, why on earth is this great time in history being banned

Because his having said a few stupid things erases everything he ever achieved

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Because his having said a few stupid things erases everything he ever achieved

Churchill was PM during the war, part of a full coalition with the then opposition Labour party working closely alongside the then opposition leader Clement Attlee.

There were many, not just one person/s getting us through the war years.
Obviously I wasn't born.

HOWEVER it's odd this supposed great man who to some it seems won the war singlehanded..
Got booted out and hammered by the people and serving Forces personnel just weeks after the end of the war in the general election HE called.

Something about him didn't clearly click at that time then.

As for Farage, well that media parasite will look anywhere to find a media platform to spout his usual tripe.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Churchill was PM during the war, part of a full coalition with the then opposition Labour party working closely alongside the then opposition leader Clement Attlee.

There were many, not just one person/s getting us through the war years.
Obviously I wasn't born.

HOWEVER it's odd this supposed great man who to some it seems won the war singlehanded..
Got booted out and hammered by the people and serving Forces personnel just weeks after the end of the war in the general election HE called.

Something about him didn't clearly click at that time then.

As for Farage, well that media parasite will look anywhere to find a media platform to spout his usual tripe.

so you think he is talking tripe here?

wow

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

so you think he is talking tripe here?

wow

At the risk of regretting even replying to you.

Where do I say that?

I rarely ever agree with Farage, he has his own darker agenda to me to just put down his usual prejudicial views on sectors of politics and those he has no time for.

Usually to me that comes out as tripe to me.
To those who agree with him or even admire him, well it wouldn't much matter what he said on anything or about anyone.

I said he'll look for any outlet to spout his usual tripe.
Nowhere did I state, he was talking only tripe here.
Although I take issue with his more hero worship of Churchill and the war.

It was the forces, the servicemen/ women,their military leaders and all out in the fields of battle who won and brought us through the war.
Not one man!!
Who was while the leading figure was only part of an important team.
That's what got the war won and who did.
Not just himself.

My criticism which I levelled re his hero worship of Churchill was that I disagreed with his insistence this one man brought victory in the war.
Because for some reason I submit again.
It didn't look like the people or the forces personnel saw him as this great exalted hero.

To try to throw him out on the political scrapheap..

Giving the man who'd been working at Churchill's side all through the said war who he gave no credit to himself, namely Attlee, a massive 145 overall majority in the general election.

So that doesn't tell me, people were that happy even at the time with Churchill.
That's what I disagreed with Farage on.

Yes, to me he does usually spout tripe.
Nowhere did I indicate that on this video comment however..
I took issue with his, in my view, clouded hero worship almost of Churchill.

I won't engage further with you and as I said I may end up with cause to regret replying.
However it's your right to contradict or dismiss my opinions too.
However, I say again, nowhere did I say he was or in fact wasn't, spouting tripe across the board in the video.
I took issue with his account of Churchill that's all.

[Tom4784]

Churchill was an utter ****, he was a white supremacist that allowed a famine to rampage through India when it was our territory which meant that we had a duty to help. His actions in the war doesn't change the fact that if there is a hell, he will be burning in it.

Appreciate what he did in World War 2 but don't be stupid and turn away from the fact that he was a complete and utter twat. This country is too obsessed with sanitising it's own history to make us the heroes in every situation when we were far from it in most situations, to deify figures and make out they were perfect in every way when they were terrible human beings in all other aspects of their lives.

As for Farage, I'm not giving him clicks, there's too many idiots that swallow everything he says willingly doing that already.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Because his having said a few stupid things erases everything he ever achieved

Three million deaths in the Bengali famine, one born from our failures in our duty to the territories we took over by force, is a little bit more than him saying a few stupid things.

[LeatherTrumpet]

"Appreciate what he did in ww2"

[Tom4784]

But also embrace the reality of who he was. He was a monster, to deny it is to deny reality, to spit in history's face just to embrace a cosy fiction.

People who cannot accept the worst parts of their own history deserve no respect.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Churchill was PM during the war, part of a full coalition with the then opposition Labour party working closely alongside the then opposition leader Clement Attlee.

There were many, not just one person/s getting us through the war years.
Obviously I wasn't born.

HOWEVER it's odd this supposed great man who to some it seems won the war singlehanded..
Got booted out and hammered by the people and serving Forces personnel just weeks after the end of the war in the general election HE called.

Something about him didn't clearly click at that time then.

As for Farage, well that media parasite will look anywhere to find a media platform to spout his usual tripe.

Can't stand Farage and that's the perfect way to describe him , he's a creep.

[Ammi]

...Nigel Farage investigates...?...he’s a rubbish investigator...the school hasn’t banned Churchill, they’re making house name changes which many schools do from time to time, it’s a very commonplace thing....I did watch his vid to see his ‘take’ on it, how he would present it or misrepresent it as is his historical way...mainly actually I watched it because of the vid title only mentioning Churchill....because I had read the story yesterday and in most of the media it was reported in full as Winston Churchill, HK Rowling, Florence Nightingale and Nelson Mandela all being the current school house names ...but the student body have decided that they want to have local places of importance, to be more personal to the local area and community...when school house names are chosen, they won’t always and forever reflect core values etc, either...which is a huge factor also in changing from time to time...and that’s a good thing...I mean...we didn’t want to stay in the EU, Nigel...did we...?...even though that was a once made decision back in the day, that’s not how we wanted to be represented now apparently....he’s so filled with hypocrisy and tailoring to fit and misrepresenting and just generally not giving a complete truth, but rather a very manipulated one that...that’s his ‘historical value’...lying about what the EU cost the country and how much the NHS were going to benefit and then retreating off the day after Brexit so as not to face his embarrassing lies...I can’t imagine Churchill having any praise for Farage’s character...he doesn’t ‘investigate’, he finds a point to incite....interesting that the only one he mentioned was Churchill and screams at parents to ‘not stand for it’....stand for what...?...house name changes to represent a local community at their child(rens) school in this free and democratic society...he’s a very dangerous man ...or tries to be...

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

But also embrace the reality of who he was. He was a monster, to deny it is to deny reality, to spit in history's face just to embrace a cosy fiction.

People who cannot accept the worst parts of their own history deserve no respect.

Yes Churchill had a terrible dislike to Asians
but he did well to get the Nazi Power
defeated
with America and Russia helping.

[Alf]

Youtube video

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Churchill had a terrible dislike to Asians
but he did well to get the Nazi Power
defeated
with America and Russia helping.

'Yes he was a white supremacist whose inactions cost millions of lives that he was in a position to save BUT....'

Let's not pretend his actions during WW2 invalidates the fact that he was a ****. Reducing him to his positive actions is a slap in the face of those who died because he saw them as being lesser.

Appreciate his actions during WW2 but do not overwrite his horrific failures as a PM and as a human being. Acknowledge that, like most historical figures, that he wasn't a perfect hero, he wasn't a symbol. He was cruel and terrible.

[Withano]

He’s a ****.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Churchill had a terrible dislike to Asians
but he did well to get the Nazi Power
defeated
with America and Russia helping.

Yeh. How long was he a soldier for again? He was on the frontline for ****ing ages too right? I can’t remember but I’m sure he helped out a great deal.

It’s like people saying bojo is a hero for seeing us through covid. Bitch no. He just happened to be prime minister at the time.

[James]

Why is it left to characters like Farage to defend Britain and its history? This country has a lot going for it and to be proud of.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by James

Why is it left to characters like Farage to defend Britain and its history? This country has a lot going for it and to be proud of.

They haven’t erased history lol. They’ve changed the name of one of the house from Churchill to someone less racist and torturous.

This is why UKIP done well. People take his word without questioning its authenticity and I’ve literally no idea why. He’s not reliable at all, ever.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Withano

They haven’t erased history lol. They’ve changed the name of one of the house from Churchill to someone less racist and torturous.

This is why UKIP done well. People take his word without questioning its authenticity and I’ve literally no idea why. He’s not reliable at all, ever.

....they’re apparently changing the name of all of the houses, Withano...to things associated more with the local area, not necessarily people but locations/places of interest etc...it’s interesting that Mr Farage only mentions Churchill but also that, that seems to be his only interest as well in telling the parents...’Don’t stand for this’....take a stand, etc...hmmmm...

[James]

Originally Posted by Withano

They haven’t erased history lol. They’ve changed the name of one of the house from Churchill to someone less racist and torturous.

This is why UKIP done well. People take his word without questioning its authenticity and I’ve literally no idea why. He’s not reliable at all, ever.

I was talking generally. I haven't looked up the story on the school (or watched the Farage video), but no doubt it is some non-story.

It's basically a career for Nigel Farage now bringing up this stuff. The word used a lot now to describe it is 'grifting'.

Originally Posted by Alf

Youtube video

This is an interesting video. It debunks a lot of the claims against Churchill (including the Bengal famine). Misinformation spreads so easily on social media. Also history is being mixed up with today's politics.

[Janet Jackson]

He was very ugly inside and out omg

[Tom4784]

'Defending history'?

No one who wants to erase the history of Churchill and any parts of UK history that shows us in a bad light cares about defending history, they only care about turning it into a fiction in which we were the heroes and we did nothing wrong ever.

The real history is that Churchill was a repugnant beast and if he was the leader of any other country, we would automatically view him less favourably because we wouldn't have the hero worshipper brigade trying to retcon history so their fictitious version of who he was replaces the reality.

People who actually care about defending the history of this country accept the bad with the good, they don't underplay it to spare their own feelings.

[Alf]

You'd have to be a massive xenophobe to spread false hatred about the person voted the greatest Britain.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

'Defending history'?

No one who wants to erase the history of Churchill and any parts of UK history that shows us in a bad light cares about defending history, they only care about turning it into a fiction in which we were the heroes and we did nothing wrong ever.

The real history is that Churchill was a repugnant beast and if he was the leader of any other country, we would automatically view him less favourably because we wouldn't have the hero worshipper brigade trying to retcon history so their fictitious version of who he was replaces the reality.

People who actually care about defending the history of this country accept the bad with the good, they don't underplay it to spare their own feelings.

No the conclusion
of WW2 in Europe was down to Churchill
America and Russia.