[Alf]

Perverts

[arista]

Originally Posted by Alf

Perverts

No,
that's what the Education People
do not want.

[parmnion]

All I had in the 80s was the popsicle films, and the shower section of a littlewoods catalogue...

And when I've made love to a woman, it's always been loving and caring, no spitting for lube needed

[Alf]

Originally Posted by arista

No,
that's what the Education People
do not want.

No education people are not involved, this is just privliged establishment people trying to normalise underage sex and paedophilia.

They've been covering it up for years and now it's dripping out, they want to normalise it.

Perverts.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Alf

No education people are involved, this is just privliged establishment people trying to normalise underage sex and paedophilia.

They've been covering it up for years and now it's dripping out, they want to normalise it.

Perverts.

Sure Alf
but to become Official
it must go through the Education Dept.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It’s like anything obviously, it doesn’t affect everyone and it doesn’t impact everyone the same way, obviously plenty of teenagers - even if they’ve seen all sorts of porn - don’t act out the most extreme stuff. Although I think “little bits” of it do still come through in terms of expectations and… umm… techniques.

Anyway in terms of what’s changed with kids these days the answer is basically access. Smartphones and mobile data.

In terms of legality, it is illegal if there’s any suspicion that it’s “real” violence and there was a change a few years back to stop “realistic rape porn” even when it’s acting but there’s still plenty of “consensual aggression” that comes pretty close to the line, and like I said before it’s often so drenched in exploitation and coercion that the “consent line” is really blurred.

In reply to a quote of yours, not quoted, it's about knowing your partner.... someone thrusting my head down is quite normal to me, but you either discuss it before hand or just say no during.......someone slapping my arse or pulling my hair a little again is normal to me and a turn on to a lot of people...kinks....but I understand that it is also an issue.

When we talk about consent, I think we forget to think about capacity.... they can go hand in hand.... if someone is already vulnerable are they able to consent and do they have the capacity to do so... I won't get all boring on this, but sex workers for example are most likely going to be very vulnerable.....children, who because of their age etc etc not mentioning the legalities of it. For example, I know, as a 30 year old man if someone did something during sex I was not happy with them I would say so. Some because of vulnerabilitie, consent, capacity feel like they can't. I don't want to over complicate the subject...but yeah, worth considering.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

In reply to a quote of yours, not quoted, it's about knowing your partner.... someone thrusting my head down is quite normal to me, but you either discuss it before hand or just say no during.......someone slapping my arse or pulling my hair a little again is normal to me and a turn on to a lot of people...kinks....but I understand that it is also an issue.

When we talk about consent, I think we forget to think about capacity.... they can go hand in hand.... if someone is already vulnerable are they able to consent and do they have the capacity to do so... I won't get all boring on this, but sex workers for example are most likely going to be very vulnerable.....children, who because of their age etc etc not mentioning the legalities of it. For example, I know, as a 30 year old man if someone did something during sex I was not happy with them I would say so. Some because of vulnerabilitie, consent, capacity feel like they can't. I don't want to over complicate the subject...but yeah, worth considering.

I think that's why we talk of "enthusiastic consent" and not just "consent" and it's an important distiction. People know fine well that there's a difference between "Hell yeah I'm into that!" and "Well... OK... we can try it... I guess... if you want..." and it's the latter that's the problem, especially for young people who don't have the confidence of experience to assert themselves. They don't really WANT to do it but if they think it's "standard stuff", the other person is asking for it and saying "everyone does it like this", and porn is sending the same message, then it enters a real grey area of what is actually consent... and what is complying with an expectation.

I also agree about capacity and I think people are far too black-and-white about that, the assumption is that if someone is over 18, isn't vulnerable for other reasons, and says "yes" for whatever reason then there's no problem which clearly isn't always the case. People often find it hard to say no just out of sheer "politeness", let alone when there are other things going on like pressuring and subtle manipulation. Even a "Pff, you're boring if you don't like that" really muddies any consent that follows IMO.

I don't know what the solution is. Probably just continuing to educate that different people have different wants and needs and there is no expectation, hand in hand with making it clear that it's never OK to try to "convince" someone to do something if they initially seemed not interested.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think that's why we talk of "enthusiastic consent" and not just "consent" and it's an important distiction. People know fine well that there's a difference between "Hell yeah I'm into that!" and "Well... OK... we can try it... I guess... if you want..." and it's the latter that's the problem, especially for young people who don't have the confidence of experience to assert themselves. They don't really WANT to do it but if they think it's "standard stuff", the other person is asking for it and saying "everyone does it like this", and porn is sending the same message, then it enters a real grey area of what is actually consent... and what is complying with an expectation.

I also agree about capacity and I think people are far too black-and-white about that, the assumption is that if someone is over 18, isn't vulnerable for other reasons, and says "yes" for whatever reason then there's no problem which clearly isn't always the case. People often find it hard to say no just out of sheer "politeness", let alone when there are other things going on like pressuring and subtle manipulation. Even a "Pff, you're boring if you don't like that" really muddies any consent that follows IMO.

I don't know what the solution is. Probably just continuing to educate that different people have different wants and needs and there is no expectation, hand in hand with making it clear that it's never OK to try to "convince" someone to do something if they initially seemed not interested.

Yes a lot is to do with 'politeness' and like you say thinking it's just normal.

I think the solution, or part of the solution as it will always be a problem to a degree, is education and money. Also, the sites that do allow this type of porn, to include a warning before hand/and for videos to be moderated more. It's not just professional porn, but ameture porn..... the problem is that some people do generally like violent porn or a very domineering partner, but again there could be a warning before hand and if people are educated in the first place.

It's very multifasicted because I think a child or young person who has resilience, good mental health and open discussions will be more likely to say no to what they don't like... back to education and upbringing.... a child or young person who has poor confidence, self-esteem issues is going to be more vunerable and a victim of peer pressure.

Children and young people need to be taught resillience which is a big thing, imo, of part of growing up. We need to let children/young people experience life, but be aware of the dangers.....whilst we need to protect them, overprotection can lead to more problems than it is trying to resolve.

EDIT; I'll give you an example from today. I am not ashamed to admit I use hookup sites. I wouldn't class myself as vunerable, but a guy I have met up with before to have sex has said that he is meeting someone today and would I like to join them. The other person involved wants to film it...which I don't have an issue with, but then he said he wants to put it on Twitter..... NOT A CHANCE! LOL....but I am of sound mind and know what I do and don't want... unfortunately, some just don;t.

[GoldHeart]

I hate the word peer pressure ,but I know kids/ teens feel pressured. We live in a messed up society where a young person is laughed at for still being a virgin . It's pathetic and it's nobody's business.