[arista]

[arista]

[arista]

[arista]

[arista]

[Nicky91]

why must the BBC follow UK, USA like sheep in branding Hamas as terrorist group?



wikipedia also still says they are a militant organisation, should we defund wikipedia too? for being non-biased

[Nicky91]

officially the Islamic Resistance Movement (حركة المقاومة الإسلامية Ḥarakah al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah), is a Sunni Islamist political and military organization governing the Gaza Strip of the Palestinian territories.

first sentence on wikipedia page for Hamas


even recognizing them as a political party as well as military organisation



that Israel isn't triggered over that lmao

[arista]

Unlike Biden

PM Sunak is out there
for 2 days

[Crimson Dynamo]

Biden arrived, barely managed to read from a script and called Hamas "the other team"

absolute shambles

[Crimson Dynamo]

[Livia]

“Now Hamas will discuss when we will wipe out Israel.”
– Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar
https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-...wiping-it-out/


“We must attack every Jew on planet Earth! We must slaughter and kill them”
– Fathi Hammad, Senior Hamas official
https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-polit...week-ultimatum


“Jews are the vilest and most despicable nation in history.”
– Marwan Abu Ras, Hamas official
https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-mp-ma...nation-history


“Oh Allah, bring annihilation upon the Jews.”
– Hamas official Sheikh Dr. Hamad Al-Regeb
https://www.memri.org/tv/rafah-gaza-...nnihilate-them


“When we talk about ‘peaceful resistance,’ we are deceiving the public.”
– Hamas co-founder Mahmoud al Zahar
https://www.memri.org/tv/senior-hama...ful-resistance


“We will take down the border and tear out their hearts from their bodies.”
– Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klFbf6VG7uA


“Israel will come to an end just as it began... The day will come when people will ask ‘where did Israel go?’”
– Mousa Abu Marzouk, Senior Hamas leader
https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamass...snt-iron-dome/


“For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry... This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: ‘We desire death like you desire life.’”
- Fathi Hammad, Senior Hamas Official
https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-mp-fa...-human-shields


“The Israelis are known to love life. We, on the other hand, sacrifice ourselves. We consider our dead to be martyrs.”
- Ali Baraka, Senior Hamas Official
https://www.memri.org/tv/senior-hama...russia-support


“Hamas has just one ‘no’ – no to the existence of Israel.”
- Osama Hamdan, Senior Hamas Official
https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-offic...urn-countries-

[arista]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Biden arrived, barely managed to read from a script and called Hamas "the other team"

absolute shambles

Yes,
he is real old

[Liam-]

I’d like to know how many slaughtered innocent Palestinians would be enough for Israeli revenge against Hamas, I mean, the current number clearly isn’t high enough for the people who are, at this point, very obviously blood thirsty, how many more war crimes are Israel allowed to commit in the name of vengeance? How many more children dying will be suitable? Over a thousand in under 7 days didn’t quite seem to quench the thirst for Israel and its fans, the number of Palestinians murdered has already doubled the amount of people murdered by the hamas atrocity, how long will the west sit by and idly watch as Israel cuts off vital resources to the innocents so they can watch them slowly die and use illegal chemical weapons over civilian areas without a care in the world, the history books will not be kind to those that allowed and egged on these crimes against humanity

[arista]

[I’d like to know how many slaughtered innocent
Palestinians would be enough for Israeli revenge]

Yes it is shocking
Slick Liam



But at least at this time
no Armed Forces are not yet entering Gaza

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Stu

Fair enough, I totally respect that it's possible to have your sensitivities more alight by a certain angle/side.

My algorithm is the same in all honesty. I will say though that in Ireland pro-Palestine stances have always been symptomatic of our own history as a repressed, colonised nation. Even our centre-right leaders have condemned both Hamas and expressed extreme caution and concern at the magnitude of the IDF response in the last week or two. We've historically been vigilant of Netanyahu's regime overstepping international laws and being a grand-stage bully. This should not be conflated with anti-semitism or outright rejection of the Israeli state.

In very practical terms, condemning the Hamas atrocities whilst not picking 'Team Western' and instead actually airing vigilance, context and caution to the cyclic history of bloodshed and oppression that precipitated these atrocities to begin with would seem to me to be the most humane, actionable stance as it speaks to prevention rather than reaction. Prevention is possible, reaction is inevitable.

Pissing in the wind, as they say.

Great post Stu.

[Livia]

“If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more ‎violence. If the Jews put ‎down their weapons ‎today, there would be no ‎more Israel'‎”

Benjamin Netanyahu

[arista]

PM Sunak now there
with Benjamin Netanyahu

All TV News

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Livia

Every time you post a quote from wiki you look like a fool.

I understand you have emotional resonance with this situation but almost every time you post in this thread, it's to insult somebody or let them know you don't want them to reply to you/won't be reading their responses. You do this whilst consciously (because you're doubtlessly clever) avoiding any posts clearly and cleanly articulating context you might not be comfortable with.

I'm not a lawyer and I don't suddenly expect you to stop doing this, but it feels helpful to address.

Anyway, there's a quick and easy low hanging fruit reply to this I'm sure that speaks to preferential genocide.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Livia

“If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more ‎violence. If the Jews put ‎down their weapons ‎today, there would be no ‎more Israel'‎”

Benjamin Netanyahu

Spot on Liv. Israel wont stop until they know the people in their country are all going to be safe. People suggesting that they should just open themselves up to slaughter are deluding themselves

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

“If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more ‎violence."

The problem is that every single person who knows the history of the West Bank and illegal Jewish settlements/enclaves knows that this is patently not true. Since the founding of modern Israel, Israeli territory has expanded over time and Palestinian territory has shrunk. There's no way to argue against that - it's not an opinion, it's geographical fact. So the statement simply makes no sense.

[arista]

[Liam-]

If the Arabs put their weapons down, Palestine would cease to exist because Israel is hell bent on taking all the land there for itself because they don’t believe Arabs deserve to exist there.

Moral grandstanding from a war criminal is not exactly the best insight to follow

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

If the Arabs put their weapons down, Palestine would cease to exist because Israel is hell bent on taking all the land there for itself because they don’t believe Arabs deserve to exist there.

Moral grandstanding from a war criminal is not exactly the best insight to follow

To be honest I think he means it. I think he means the violence would cease, because they would take the whole area as Israel, and that would be that.

[user104658]

TBH in terms of global stability, setting morality aside, I even understand why Western leaders would quite like that to happen. Being heartlessly pragmatic, that is. It's the simplest solution.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Stu

I understand you have emotional resonance with this situation but almost every time you post in this thread, it's to insult somebody or let them know you don't want them to reply to you/won't be reading their responses. You do this whilst consciously (because you're doubtlessly clever) avoiding any posts clearly and cleanly articulating context you might not be comfortable with.

I'm not a lawyer and I don't suddenly expect you to stop doing this, but it feels helpful to address.

Anyway, there's a quick and easy low hanging fruit reply to this I'm sure that speaks to preferential genocide.

Yes, I do have an emotional response, and for it I've been called a liar and a weirdo on this thread. I expect this, as a Jew I've faced it regularly. I've been told on this forum that the Jews should stop moaning because we have Hollywood. I've been referred to as the Jewish Princess, a disgusting Zionist... in fact I've lost count of the anti-Semitic insults I've had hurled at me on here. Posts were only removed when I requested it. I don't even feel able to talk about my own experience of Israel and Palestine because my whole identity has been questioned quite openly.

I do understand the response from people worried from Gaza; I do understand that innocent Palestinians are being killed, both by Israel and by Hamas themselves. I don't want anyone to die in this terrible conflict but my natural response is to side with my own people, as it would be yours

I have decided to leave this thread now. It's more trouble for me than it's worth.