[Redway]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Honestly I think it is regressive, it does not make black people equal to have 'their own night' in my view it is patronising and non inclusive, we should all be equal, black people should not be bothered by a white persons gaze and vice versa, just my take on it, what do you actually think is going to happen in a theatre? are black people actually going to feel unsafe in a mixed group....its just divisive shiz, as Oliver said a great advertising tool for a show

It’s not really about what you think when it comes to what black people know when it comes to guarding spaces that are just for them and not stereotypically negatively so.

I don’t care what Ollie’s saying about great advertising tools or whatever other line from the book of neutral, colour-blind objectives he wants to roll out. Everything he says about race is by the book of unwavering neutrality and race is more complex and real than that. It doesn’t shoot to acknowledge it and stop pretending like we’ve all experienced the same level of prejudice and historical discrimination based just off the colour of our skin specifically. We might all be equal as people but none of us are equal historically (and even if they are they’re still different) and that continues to affect people, for good and bad. When it’s for good, let it blossom. Let black people themselves be the judge of what’s patronising to them and what isn’t. Is women getting together to talk about motherhood and breast-feeding in women-only spaces regressive to you?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by arista

[West End play tells white theatregoers they
aren't welcome as it hosts all-black audience
nights at Kit Harington production to 'protect'
ticketholders from 'the white gaze'
Two evenings will be left open to an
'all-Black identifying audience']


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hite-gaze.html

Whoever came up with that idea deserves to be fired from their job, and put in a Mental Ward.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Redway

Certain black experiences (and don’t tell me you’ve experienced exactly that same level or type of racism) are unique to black people and black people alone and they should have the right to feel protected in certain spaces and able to have a sounding board for things that pertain mostly to black people. You can flip the tables for reverse-neutrality’s sake but the bottom and top line is white people don’t need it. Understand it, don’t understand it. It doesn’t change anything.

What about Asian people? Or Hispanics? This Theatre is saying it only wants black audiences.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Honestly I think it is regressive, it does not make black people equal to have 'their own night' in my view it is patronising and non inclusive, we should all be equal, black people should not be bothered by a white persons gaze and vice versa, just my take on it, what do you actually think is going to happen in a theatre? are black people actually going to feel unsafe in a mixed group....its just divisive shiz, as Oliver said a great advertising tool for a show

I 100% agree with you Cherie.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Redway

It’s not really about what you think when it comes to what black people know when it comes to guarding spaces that are just for them and not stereotypically negatively so.

I don’t care what Ollie’s saying about great advertising tools or whatever other line from the book of neutral, colour-blind objectives he wants to roll out. Everything he says about race is by the book of unwavering neutrality and race is more complex and real than that. It doesn’t shoot to acknowledge it and stop pretending like we’ve all experienced the same level of prejudice and historical discrimination based just off the colour of our skin specifically. We might all be equal as people but none of us are equal historically (and even if they are they’re still different) and that continues to affect people, for good and bad. When it’s for good, let it blossom. Let black people themselves be the judge of what’s patronising to them and what isn’t. Is women getting together to talk about motherhood and breast-feeding in women-only spaces regressive to you?

it would be if it were just say white women or black women, and you are comparing apples with oranges, not all of the human race can breast feed, but theatre goers come in all shapes and sizes, they sit in a darkened theatre alongside whoever they travelled with, they watch the show, and then they go home, they don't really interact with the strangers around them, look if you are happy with this good on you but dont go complaining about whites only gatherings should there be any (hopefully not) in the future, you really can't have it both ways

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I 100% agree with you Cherie.

Not often we agree Mock

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Redway

Is women getting together to talk about motherhood and breast-feeding in women-only spaces regressive to you?

Women are the only people who can breastfeed and be mothers, while people of all races have historically been slaves or slave owners at some point.

While modern day slavery is a thing, they're unlikely to be going to see plays.

You don't inherit memories from your ancestors, so history doesn't mean a whole lot on an individual basis.

[Ammi]

…I’ve read all of the reasoning of ‘Theatre Black Out…’ performances and as was said earlier in the thread…this isn’t a first, I think that 2019 was the first one so 4 years ago…?…anyway, this is a ‘black story’ written by a ‘black playwright’ and ‘addressing a black audience’ for that input dynamic…?….and because it’s felt that Theatre goers are ‘predominantly white’ audience, this is intended to create or balance that…?…to encourage a black audience into the theatre/theatres…?…so addressing an ‘imbalance’ as perceived, if you like …by creating and deepening an imbalance…by making that imbalance into a divide and divisive thing…?…as well intentioned as it may be, it’s surely very misguided and was obviously always going to be perceived as ‘extreme’…there were ways to do this that weren’t going to pull against any positives it hoped to achieve…many tickets could have been given to black clubs and organisations …it could be looked at as to whether the production could become ‘mobile’ and taken out to those communities also…?…there are ways that would have kept it all ‘about the arts’ and not just fuelling already highly fuelled culture wars that are present in in our modern day world….but this, I think…will just add to a divide that is already extremely concerning….this isn’t addressing, surely…?…it’s aggravating, whether unintentional or not…that was always going to be what we see…

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…I’ve read all of the reasoning of ‘Theatre Black Out…’ performances and as was said earlier in the thread…this isn’t a first, I think that 2019 was the first one so 4 years ago…?…anyway, this is a ‘black story’ written by a ‘black playwright’ and ‘addressing a black audience’ for that input dynamic…?….and because it’s felt that Theatre goers are ‘predominantly white’ audience, this is intended to create or balance that…?…to encourage a black audience into the theatre/theatres…?…so addressing an ‘imbalance’ as perceived, if you like …by creating and deepening an imbalance…by making that imbalance into a divide and divisive thing…?…as well intentioned as it may be, it’s surely very misguided and was obviously always going to be perceived as ‘extreme’…there were ways to do this that weren’t going to pull against any positives it hoped to achieve…many tickets could have been given to black clubs and organisations …it could be looked at as to whether the production could become ‘mobile’ and taken out to those communities also…?…there are ways that would have kept it all ‘about the arts’ and not just fuelling already highly fuelled culture wars that are present in in our modern day world….but this, I think…will just add to a divide that is already extremely concerning….this isn’t addressing, surely…?…it’s aggravating, whether unintentional or not…that was always going to be what we see…

Absolutely, if you want to attract more black people to the theatre then advertise in places that your intended audience will see it, I don't see cinemas having to have only black audiences for films like 10 years a slave, so personally I do think this is more of an extreme advertising gimmick than truly offering black people 'a safe space' to watch some theatre, obviously I bow to Redway as a black person to have his own opinion on this but on this occasion I feel black people are being targeted and not in a nice way

[LeatherTrumpet]

what next a muslim play with big banners saying

NO JEWS

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what next a muslim play with big banners saying

NO JEWS

Oh, didn't you hear? Palestinians are the only people to ever have been invaded. And that somehow affects muslims who've never been and have no relatives from there.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Women are the only people who can breastfeed and be mothers, while people of all races have historically been slaves or slave owners at some point.

While modern day slavery is a thing, they're unlikely to be going to see plays.

You don't inherit memories from your ancestors, so history doesn't mean a whole lot on an individual basis.

Unbelievable.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

What about Asian people? Or Hispanics? This Theatre is saying it only wants black audiences.

For one night, Mock. They’re welcome to do an Asian or Hispanic night some other time but that’s just not what this is about.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Redway

Unbelievable.

Which part don't you believe?

The part about only women being able to be mothers? The grim reality that slavery still exists, even in the UK? Or that memories can't magically be handed down from one person to another?

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Which part don't you believe?

The part about only women being able to be mothers? The grim reality that slavery still exists, even in the UK? Or that memories can't magically be handed down from one person to another?

Your attitude and unwavering neutrality’s unbelievable. You being the debater you are will find something to argue about but I’ve said my own. I will never, ever, ever agree with you on subjects like this and I’m cool with that. Our experiences and perspectives are incompatible here. But do you.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Redway

Your attitude and unwavering neutrality’s unbelievable. You being the debater you are will find something to argue about but I’ve said my own. I will never, ever, ever agree with you on subjects like this and I’m cool with that. Our experiences and perspectives are incompatible here. But do you.

That's cool. I know there are some things about which we do agree.

I think the uber-privileged types like to pass down their chip, shoulder-to-shoulder; maybe crosses can get passed down too

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

That's cool. I know there are some things about which we do agree.

I think the uber-privileged types like to pass down their chip, shoulder-to-shoulder; maybe crosses can get passed down too

Yeah, whatever. I’m not arguing with you about this. I’m too annoyed to even go there with you right now even if I had more vim to carry this on.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…I’ve read all of the reasoning of ‘Theatre Black Out…’ performances and as was said earlier in the thread…this isn’t a first, I think that 2019 was the first one so 4 years ago…?…anyway, this is a ‘black story’ written by a ‘black playwright’ and ‘addressing a black audience’ for that input dynamic…?….and because it’s felt that Theatre goers are ‘predominantly white’ audience, this is intended to create or balance that…?…to encourage a black audience into the theatre/theatres…?…so addressing an ‘imbalance’ as perceived, if you like …by creating and deepening an imbalance…by making that imbalance into a divide and divisive thing…?…as well intentioned as it may be, it’s surely very misguided and was obviously always going to be perceived as ‘extreme’…there were ways to do this that weren’t going to pull against any positives it hoped to achieve…many tickets could have been given to black clubs and organisations …it could be looked at as to whether the production could become ‘mobile’ and taken out to those communities also…?…there are ways that would have kept it all ‘about the arts’ and not just fuelling already highly fuelled culture wars that are present in in our modern day world….but this, I think…will just add to a divide that is already extremely concerning….this isn’t addressing, surely…?…it’s aggravating, whether unintentional or not…that was always going to be what we see…

Yes absolutely, it's not good the way race relations are being handled lately. It's almost encouraging segregation again which can not be a good thing.

[smudgie]

.
So, people in a mixed race relationship won’t be able to see it together then.
What exactly is meant by white gaze, is it gazing at the drama on stage or gazing at other theatre goers.
Surely being all inclusive would be more beneficial to all.

[Ammi]

…I think that everything you’ve written and all of your thoughts are very valid and align with the intentions of the Blackout Theatre evenings, Red……just to add about the play itself, it isn’t set…(…so far as I know…)…in times of historic black slavery…it’s described as a controversial and ground breaking play and is the most Tony nominated play of all time…its description of ‘extraordinary’ covers race, identity and sexuality in 21st century America…so it’s easy to see why the playwright is trying to reach a specific audience also that he doesn’t feel would generally go to any theatre showing….I’m just not sure in todays society with our tabloid media and social media, whether this is the right way and isn’t going to aggravate…as I guess we’re seeing…?…because it’s also about ‘reading the room…’…and finding the right way to achieve what he hopes to…

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by smudgie

.
So, people in a mixed race relationship won’t be able to see it together then.
What exactly is meant by white gaze, is it gazing at the drama on stage or gazing at other theatre goers.
Surely being all inclusive would be more beneficial to all.

…yeah, (…I believe…)…that ‘identify as’ covers mixed race couples also as the play has aspects of that topic also…


…anyway, as I say…my personal leaning is that this isn’t the right way and will only fuel something which is already divided more and more in current times so I’m not ‘defending’ either, just trying to understand all of the reasoning and thought behind it…I’m sure this all wasn’t the intention but it’s the outcome of something that wasn’t really well thought out with other options…

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by smudgie

.
So, people in a mixed race relationship won’t be able to see it together then.
What exactly is meant by white gaze, is it gazing at the drama on stage or gazing at other theatre goers.
Surely being all inclusive would be more beneficial to all.

and of course be "being inclusive" you mean like any other normal theatre in the entire world that does not care a hoot what climate-induced skin colouring you have

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yes absolutely, it's not good the way race relations are being handled lately. It's almost encouraging segregation again which can not be a good thing.

I'm sure it won't be long until we're seeing people making positive arguments for there being black sections of the bus, and separate drinking fountains.

[bitontheslide]

would blind/sight impaired people be allowed in?

[LeatherTrumpet]

Essex man Captain Norval Sinclair Marley would not be welcome to attend with his son Robert