[Ammi]

…I loved Sucker Punch……the fight scenes were superb and the story was such an impact…

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I both agree and disagree - it depends what you're going to watch, and if there's any art behind the CGI - a lot of critics are snobs who can't see it. To give some examples... Most recent Marvel films are bland, generic factory farmed CGI. Indeed boring.

However, I am a Snyder fan for his CGI and can give some examples of the exact opposite - utterly gorgeous CGI that's more than worth the price of admission, despite plots and overall movies only being mediocre.

1) Any "Flash" scene in the extended Justice League film. Not an amazing film, some gorgeous CGI.

2) The titular fight of Batman vs Superman. Stunning.

3) All of "Sucker Punch". The whole film. The plot is wafer thin and a bit twee. The film itself is an absolutely jaw-dropping CGI masterclass. The "Robot train" sequence is just outstanding.

To use a non-snyder examples... The "mysterio illusion" sequence from Spider-man Far From Home. Top drawer.

The Thanos vs Doctor Strange fight in Infinity War. Also brilliantly done.

But yes, in general, Disney/Marvel have gotten extremely lazy and these Sony Spider-verse films are soullessly trying to cash in and churning out garbage like Morbius and Madame Web.

Originally Posted by Ammi

…I loved Sucker Punch……the fight scenes were superb and the story was such an impact…

I hated Sucker Punch, was like watching some teenage boys wet dream, trying to disguise it as a "girl power" film

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I hated Sucker Punch, was like watching some teenage boys wet dream, trying to disguise it as a "girl power" film

Like I said I found the plot thin and you're right it's somewhat problematic as well, I have abundant criticisms of Snyder films in general BUT that was my point really - say what you will about Snyder films... problematic themes, problematic casts, just over-long sometimes... however in terms of artistic vision in CGI-heavy action I honestly think there's no equal. The detail and clear (somewhat paradoxically) "hand-crafted" frame to frame construction of the action scenes is just a million miles from the Disney-factory-fresh approach you get in things like the MCU.

To be fair Disney is probably the worst for it and getting worse - churning out boring visual effects. They pulled out the stops for Infinity War and Endgame, I will give them that much, but otherwise it's just not "there" at all any more. Spider-man has done it best recently and IMO that's because there's heavy input from Sony and it's not a "pure" Disney/Marvel franchise despite being part of the MCU.

The one recent exception I'd give with the MCU is Shang Chi - not one of my favourite Marvel movies, but it's very clear that a lot of love and consideration has gone into the visual effects.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

was like watching some teenage boys wet dream, trying to disguise it as a "girl power" film

I'm actually going to rewatch it and consider this because I have an inkling that it's a bad take, and that the BIB might be integral to the social commentary that is there BUT it's several years since I watched it so I can't be 100% of my thoughts on the exploitative elements. If my opinion is still the same I'll come back and mansplain it a bit .

If anything I remember my main criticism being that I found the exploitation/power dynamics commentary a bit unsubtle and on-the-nose, but not inaccurate. Over the top male gaze and anime-esque infantilisation is part of the commentary.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I'm actually going to rewatch it and consider this because I have an inkling that it's a bad take, and that the BIB might be integral to the social commentary that is there BUT it's several years since I watched it so I can't be 100% of my thoughts on the exploitative elements. If my opinion is still the same I'll come back and mansplain it a bit .

If anything I remember my main criticism being that I found the exploitation/power dynamics commentary a bit unsubtle and on-the-nose, but not inaccurate. Over the top male gaze and anime-esque infantilisation is part of the commentary.

We actually watched it a few years back for Movie Club on TiBB

https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/for...h#post10997616

[Ammi]

…we did watch it in the movie club, maybe I recommended it…?…I can’t recall…but it’s strange the aspects/perspectives that we can focus on with these things…mine was more on the world that she created/they all created in the minds because of abuse and violence and exploitations etc….and that’s why I was so impacted emotionally as well because those dream sequences were the furthest thing from reality and the reality was so sad and awful…but yeah, I totally get what you feel about it also…

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…we did watch it in the movie club, maybe I recommended it…?…I can’t recall…but it’s strange the aspects/perspectives that we can focus on with these things…mine was more on the world that she created/they all created in the minds because of abuse and violence and exploitations etc….and that’s why I was so impacted emotionally as well because those dream sequences were the furthest thing from reality and the reality was so sad and awful…but yeah, I totally get what you feel about it also…

Yeah you did, that was when i watched it for the first time, I put the link to the thread in my previous post

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah you did, that was when i watched it for the first time, I put the link to the thread in my previous post

…yeah I just had a quick speed glance at that …and interesting that I saw other aspects of it on a second watch and didn’t focus on the same things ….

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…we did watch it in the movie club, maybe I recommended it…?…I can’t recall…but it’s strange the aspects/perspectives that we can focus on with these things…mine was more on the world that she created/they all created in the minds because of abuse and violence and exploitations etc….and that’s why I was so impacted emotionally as well because those dream sequences were the furthest thing from reality and the reality was so sad and awful…but yeah, I totally get what you feel about it also…

I'm pretty sure that was always my take Ammi - looking at it in a "matrixy" way, Babydoll is a representation of the character's self-image in her own "Mind Matrix" an exaggerated and hyper-sexualised exploitative representation of the male gaze. I think absolutely key to the message is remembering (on a second watch) that Sweet Pea and Babydoll can be thought of as the same person, or for another interesting perspective, that Babydoll (like the rest of the female cast) doesn't exist at all and the whole story is actually from the perspective of Sweet Pea.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I'm pretty sure that was always my take Ammi - looking at it in a "matrixy" way, Babydoll is a representation of the character's self-image in her own "Mind Matrix" an exaggerated and hyper-sexualised exploitative representation of the male gaze. I think absolutely key to the message is remembering (on a second watch) that Sweet Pea and Babydoll can be thought of as the same person, or for another interesting perspective, that Babydoll (like the rest of the female cast) doesn't exist at all and the whole story is actually from the perspective of Sweet Pea.

….as I say, I think that with very layered and thought provoking topics and characters etc…some does come from us/the emotional vibe that we have while we’re watching and that can change and ‘flip’ a perspective, if you like…I don’t know when your first watch was but being a father of daughters etc and having concerns about ‘today’s world’…it would be interesting to see your views in comparison to last time…and the eyes that you’re watching it through now…because these things don’t remain fixed, do they….

…I don’t want to give too much away but for me it was similar to the series Crowded Room in how young and sadly damaged minds and memories find their ‘safe place’ to block and to reinvent at times also…