[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Zizu

I only skimmed through it tbh
Not keen on huge blocks of text


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…that’s fair enough and fine…it was just one of those things when I thought…did I not just say that, maybe I didn’t say what I thought I did……it’s fine/it’s cool…if it sounded snappy, I apologise…it’s not how I intended it…

[user104658]

I agree Ammi I'm leaning heavily toward this not being a "gender politics" issue but a much more complicated situation involving a potential intersex condition. With that being the case, I actually would generally consider it to be legitimate for her to compete in women's sports generally; it's a rare example, and she is not and has never been male, which makes it very different to someone who has chosen to transition. I would not, for example, take issue with her competing in a running event, or any other non contact event, even if she was totally dominating that event.

BUT...

My caveat here would be, in physical contact sport and especially combat sport the primary consideration should always be safety... and if there's found to be a disproportionate strength advantage (that is, a level of strength that would not normally be achievable by others fighting in the same category without hormonal/chemical enhancement) then I think it's ultimately fair to say that unfortunately they can't safely and fairly fight in that category.

The regulator's balance always should skew to what's safe over and above what's fair, if we're being sensible. That's the case in all areas IMO.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…that’s fair enough and fine…it was just one of those things when I thought…did I not just say that, maybe I didn’t say what I thought I did……it’s fine/it’s cool…if it sounded snappy, I apologise…it’s not how I intended it…

It’s all gooood


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[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I agree Ammi I'm leaning heavily toward this not being a "gender politics" issue but a much more complicated situation involving a potential intersex condition. With that being the case, I actually would generally consider it to be legitimate for her to compete in women's sports generally; it's a rare example, and she is not and has never been male, which makes it very different to someone who has chosen to transition. I would not, for example, take issue with her competing in a running event, or any other non contact event, even if she was totally dominating that event.

BUT...

My caveat here would be, in physical contact sport and especially combat sport the primary consideration should always be safety... and if there's found to be a disproportionate strength advantage (that is, a level of strength that would not normally be achievable by others fighting in the same category without hormonal/chemical enhancement) then I think it's ultimately fair to say that unfortunately they can't safely and fairly fight in that category.

The regulator's balance always should skew to what's safe over and above what's fair, if we're being sensible. That's the case in all areas IMO.

Its not just increased punching power its increased punch resistance , stamina and aggressive


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[user104658]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Its not just increased punching power its increased punch resistance , stamina and aggressive


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"Aggressive" is debatable it's not a natural advantage, it's a choice/tactic that anyone could use, or not use. The rest of it all comes under physical advantage so isn't really relevant. For the record I am against actual trans women taking part in any women's sport professionally but it's increasingly looking like that's not the situation here.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I agree Ammi I'm leaning heavily toward this not being a "gender politics" issue but a much more complicated situation involving a potential intersex condition. With that being the case, I actually would generally consider it to be legitimate for her to compete in women's sports generally; it's a rare example, and she is not and has never been male, which makes it very different to someone who has chosen to transition. I would not, for example, take issue with her competing in a running event, or any other non contact event, even if she was totally dominating that event.

BUT...

My caveat here would be, in physical contact sport and especially combat sport the primary consideration should always be safety... and if there's found to be a disproportionate strength advantage (that is, a level of strength that would not normally be achievable by others fighting in the same category without hormonal/chemical enhancement) then I think it's ultimately fair to say that unfortunately they can't safely and fairly fight in that category.

The regulator's balance always should skew to what's safe over and above what's fair, if we're being sensible. That's the case in all areas IMO.

…I do think this is sadly another time when we’ve seen ‘the worst of the internet/social media’ in discussions of her genitalia etc…and in her country also, I imagine so many things are not discussed publicly in any way…but on the ‘athlete’ side, which is what I personally want to focus on…I’m not sure whether her more elevated levels of testosterone would be comparable in any way to someone who had taken performance enhanced drugs…but safety has to be ensured in a ‘fair fight’…none of this is her fault and it hasn’t helped, I don’t think…that there seems to have been some inconsistencies in the past in terms of her competing…such a mess all round, really…

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…I do think this is sadly another time when we’ve seen ‘the worst of the internet/social media’ in discussions of her genitalia etc…and in her country also, I imagine so many things are not discussed publicly in any way…but on the ‘athlete’ side, which is what I personally want to focus on…I’m not sure whether her more elevated levels of testosterone would be comparable in any way to someone who had taken performance enhanced drugs…but safety has to be ensured in a ‘fair fight’…none of this is her fault and it hasn’t helped, I don’t think…that there seems to have been some inconsistencies in the past in terms of her competing…such a mess all round, really…

There's a lot of conflicting information about the whole thing online.

[GiRTh]

For my opinion, she is an advantaged athlete but, she seems to lack the ability to take advantage of her advantage. She still has an advantage though. I dont think she should be competing. Yesterday in the fight, every time the fighters came together she pushed or threw her opponent to the canvas.

I'm now starting to resent that she is getting more press than much more talented athletes. I hope she goes out soon.

[Ninastar]

Okay I dooo hate to be that person I swear I just saw a pic of XY homie wearing a crotch pad? Is that common for women?

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

There's a lot of conflicting information about the whole think online.

Purposefully spread misinformation to push a bigoted agenda of harassment and hatred towards this poor woman and gullible, easily manipulated and easily triggered morons are falling for it

[Liam-]

[Crimson Dynamo]

"bigoted children's author"


great source Liam...

Sound

[Beso]

Do any of them take part in sports that their conditioned wouldnt give them an advantage, like bowls or something.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Do any of them take part in sports that their conditioned wouldnt give them an advantage, like bowls or something.

I don’t know but I have noticed one thing in these Olympics and that is there’s an awful lot of female competitors who look like young guys facially .

There was always the odd dodgy looking female athlete but now it’s far more noticeable in basketball , swimming and even cycling etc etc

Maybe they are just more comfortable looking boyish with shorter , more masculine hairstyles

Just today I was watching a cycle road race and was looking at a close up .. I thought they looked like young teenage boys and I was amazed that they weren’t even slightly out if breath … then the guy explained it was the women’s race and shocked me







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[Glenn.]

They all look like women…

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

They all look like women…

You mustn’t get out much


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[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Zizu

You mustn’t get out much


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Could say the same to you?

You can clearly see they’re women

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Could say the same to you?

You can clearly see they’re women

Well the one in white looks like Michael Cera the comic actor from Juno




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[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Well the one in white looks like Michael Cera the comic actor from Juno




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You're going down a slippery slope now ,is every female athlete going to get her gender questioned now .

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Well the one in white looks like Michael Cera the comic actor from Juno




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Nope

[Ninastar]

Pics that spread out the whole layout of a thread should be BANNED imo

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

Pics that spread out the whole layout of a thread should be BANNED imo

I think that sometimes I’m the culprit so apologies in advance

If someone can tell me the acceptable size of photos it would be ever so helpful


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[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

The wheel is still spinning but the hamster is dead

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

They all look like women…

Controversially I'm with Zizu on this one.

But I can be terrible sometimes at telling people's gender or sex.

Like on BBUSA this season, I initially thought that Quinn was a woman, so my eyesight is probably not the best.

Edit... Just to clarify, I can tell on picture that the Italian Cyclist is a woman.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

You're going down a slippery slope now ,is every female athlete going to get her gender questioned now .

You know that's going to happen.

The Cyclists in the picture look butch imo, but I don't think that any of them are Trans or Intersex, because the Media would've reported it.