[GoldHeart]

Can Ali just shut the hell up , can tell it annoys her that Khaled is popular on the outside world. And why is she going on about the other group " protecting themselves and not voting for anyone else", first of all ..I'm pretty sure she's hovering over nom talk ...but ok BB we'll let that one off .

But I'm sorry but isn't she also protecting her friends!??? , she's never going to nominate Lily , Nathan or Dean . So why is she so salty at the other group being " strong" . She wants Hanah on her side , but Hanah is still friends with the boys.

For once Lily said something somewhat optimistic by saying " it will bring us all closer together", of course Ali had to burst that with her negativity...by basically saying " no " .

[FromBB8]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Can Ali just shut the hell up , can tell it annoys her that Khaled is popular on the outside world. And why is she going on about the other group " protecting themselves and not voting for anyone else", first of all ..I'm pretty sure she's hovering over nom talk ...but ok BB we'll let that one off .

But I'm sorry but isn't she also protecting her friends!??? , she's never going to nominate Lily , Nathan or Dean . So why is she so salty at the other group being " strong" . She wants Hanah on her side , but Hanah is still friends with the boys.

For once Lily said something somewhat optimistic by saying " it will bring us all closer together", of course Ali had to burst that with her negativity...by basically saying " no " .

She paired Lily with Hanah simply to try and protect her. She can hardly be surprised when the other friendship group want to protect their own.

I do want to see Lily in the house without Ali. I think it'd be interesting to see who she starts to grow closer to.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by FromBB8

She paired Lily with Hanah simply to try and protect her. She can hardly be surprised when the other friendship group want to protect their own.

I do want to see Lily in the house without Ali. I think it'd be interesting to see who she starts to grow closer to.

Exactly this

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Beso

Well can you please tell me what word to use for people who identify as the Q in LGBTQ so I can use that instead.

I’m not playing your game.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I’m not playing your game.

Then a man of my age will never learn I'm afraid.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I’m not playing your game.

I think it gets a little baity on here in general tbh ,and there's even a thread accusing Khaled of being
" homophobic" for no reason. So stuff like that doesn't help.

Ali herself kept saying " Queer" , she even referred to Nathan as that ... despite the fact he doesn't want a label. I got the impression " Queer" is now used as an umbrella term for not being totally straight/ hetro. But yeah there will be some who don't like that word , however it is part of the letter in LGBTQ , so not sure how those people feel about it being a part of the letter group.

I think sometimes people are just confused and to what they can say ,it isn't always coming from a malicious place. But I will say ... sometimes people lash out as a tot for tat ,and as Martha would say ' it's giving playgroup ' .

[Beso]

Just to defend myself further, my reasons for saying Ali could be racist is because she felt she had to check on hanah way back when hanah and kahled had their chat after their drama.. and also her beef with kahled from the outset...

She wasn't like that with any other man so why kahled, the young Muslim?

Admittedly I dont think that now. I think it's just men in general.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Beso

Just to defend myself further, my reasons for saying Ali could be racist is because she felt she had to check on hanah way back when hanah and kahled had their chat after their drama.. and also her beef with kahled from the outset...

She wasn't like that with any other man so why kahled, the young Muslim?

Admittedly I dont think that now. I think it's just men in general.

I think it was more her 'feminist' side coming out, and she thought she was protecting Hanah. It was grating though as that conversation with Khaled & Hanah had nothing to do with her .

She pre judges people, especially men in general.

Martha did a similar thing ,when again Khaled was having a private 1 to 1 with Ali ....and Martha felt the need to interrupt to ask Ali " are you ok " . When again it had nothing to do with Martha.

It reminded me

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Beso

Just to defend myself further, my reasons for saying Ali could be racist is because she felt she had to check on hanah way back when hanah and kahled had their chat after their drama.. and also her beef with kahled from the outset...

She wasn't like that with any other man so why kahled, the young Muslim?

Admittedly I dont think that now. I think it's just men in general.

But Hanah is Muslim aswell , so was Izaaz .And Ali got on pretty well with Izaaz . Which actually makes her pyramid argument crumble.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

But Hanah is Muslim aswell , so was Izaaz .And Ali got on pretty well with Izaaz . Which actually makes her pyramid argument crumble.

Thats why I dont believe it now..dont really believe the man thing either now because shes always rubbing Marcellos back in praise, even after her disgust at his I'll timed choice of language.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I think it gets a little baity on here in general tbh ,and there's even a thread accusing Khaled of being
" homophobic" for no reason. So stuff like that doesn't help.

Ali herself kept saying " Queer" , she even referred to Nathan as that ... despite the fact he doesn't want a label. I got the impression " Queer" is now used as an umbrella term for not being totally straight/ hetro. But yeah there will be some who don't like that word , however it is part of the letter in LGBTQ , so not sure how those people feel about it being a part of the letter group.

I think sometimes people are just confused and to what they can say ,it isn't always coming from a malicious place. But I will say ... sometimes people lash out as a tot for tat ,and as Martha would say ' it's giving playgroup ' .

I just want to point out once again it's not the usage of the word, it's the context it's within.

Another example from the same user, aside from the two I have mentioned, is in the 'Soap Star arrested for having sex with underage boys' thread where he says "TV gays are a different breed". If the news article was 'Soap Star arrested for having sex with underage girls' and I said "TV straights are a different breed" it would be extremely inappropriate not to mention weird.

Another example was where he suggested Ali might fancy Khaled because "go gay, you gotta stay" like sexuality was a choice, despite the fact Ali calls herself a Lesbian.

Another example is him saying he'd rather die in war than be "bummed in jail"

Another example is saying "They like a bit of rape in these gays bars" like rape doesn't happen anywhere else.

Mentioning sexuality where it's not warranted is a tactic (yes I know I sound like Ali) that people use to draw negative attention to a particular group without actually saying anything negative.

I am sure I could go on with more examples but I won't. The attempt at looking innocent despite a back catalogue of questionable content is disingenuous to say the least. I was trying to be polite but sometimes a spade is just that.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I think it gets a little baity on here in general tbh ,and there's even a thread accusing Khaled of being
" homophobic" for no reason. So stuff like that doesn't help.

Ali herself kept saying " Queer" , she even referred to Nathan as that ... despite the fact he doesn't want a label. I got the impression " Queer" is now used as an umbrella term for not being totally straight/ hetro. But yeah there will be some who don't like that word , however it is part of the letter in LGBTQ , so not sure how those people feel about it being a part of the letter group.

I think sometimes people are just confused and to what they can say ,it isn't always coming from a malicious place. But I will say ... sometimes people lash out as a tot for tat ,and as Martha would say ' it's giving playgroup ' .

Hey, I appreciate your response as I have a lot of respect for you, and this thread was truly something else in a number of interactions. I can understand that sometimes in a heated debate, people can express themselves badly or in the wrong way, and I accept that.

However, sometimes people get personal and unpleasant just for the sake of it or potentially due to some underlying beliefs. Some of the posts on this thread were not sudden and heated outbursts or the result of confusions, but much more carefully considered to achieve a certain impact and to make people feel a particular way. I’ve seen this too often- in fact, my job requires training in understanding and recognising it - and I believe I recognise it for what it is. On this occasion, I can’t be swayed from that.

I understand the terminology and the acceptable use of it, so the problem wasn’t the use of the word ‘queer’ or me having any dislike of it, but of how it was being used in a taunting and deliberate way to send a certain message. When the thin line of homophobia or any other prejudice is being skated on, I can’t stand by and watch that happen, yet say nothing about it. When people continue to do it, when someone else has clearly explained the implications and effects, they are doing so by choice, and proving it is intentional.

[Beso]

You should really post the threads all those were said in, for true context...cause the tv one was said because we have had high profile cases of gay tv stars messing up..


The bumming in jail happens, only a fool would deny that, and that was said in an argument about fighting for the uk or going to jail..


The rape in these bars comment was about a rape in a gay bar where staff stood by and let a drug dealer rape someone in manchester.

Gay you gotta stay, was uttered by me when I was saying uf Ali can go from straight relationships to lesbian relationships, then there is no reason why she couldntcrevert back to a straight relationship


I once even said 2 paedophiles could pretend to be gay in order to adopt a child to abuse from that came an accusation that us still used against me which is that I think all gays are paedos.. a slanderous accusation, much like the way this is going.

[BBXX]

None of that was a good defence, I hope you understand. I'm not engaging with you on this any further, the topic had been derailed enough.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Garfie

Hey, I appreciate your response as I have a lot of respect for you, and this thread was truly something else in a number of interactions. I can understand that sometimes in a heated debate, people can express themselves badly or in the wrong way, and I accept that.

However, sometimes people get personal and unpleasant just for the sake of it or potentially due to some underlying beliefs. Some of the posts on this thread were not sudden and heated outbursts or the result of confusions, but much more carefully considered to achieve a certain impact and to make people feel a particular way. I’ve seen this too often- in fact, my job requires training in understanding and recognising it - and I believe I recognise it for what it is. On this occasion, I can’t be swayed from that.

I understand the terminology and the acceptable use of it, so the problem wasn’t the use of the word ‘queer’ or me having any dislike of it, but of how it was being used in a taunting and deliberate way to send a certain message. When the thin line of homophobia or any other prejudice is being skated on, I can’t stand by and watch that happen, yet say nothing about it. When people continue to do it, when someone else has clearly explained the implications and effects, they are doing so by choice, and proving it is intentional.

I completely understand you , but there's alot of double standards . I've seen comments mocking Khaled & Segun's sexuality....as if somehow they're both secretly in the closet or something, those same people then hit the roof when Ali's sexuality is being mocked & disrespected. I wish there was consistency.

I've seen it from all sides on here. I wish people would stop the sniping and getting personal .

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I completely understand you , but there's alot of double standards . I've seen comments mocking Khaled & Segun's sexuality....as if somehow they're both secretly in the closet or something, those same people then hit the roof when Ali's sexuality is being mocked & disrespected. I wish there was consistency.

I've seen it from all sides on here. I wish people would stop the sniping and getting personal .

I have seen that too and spoken out - literally in the last 24 hours I told a user we shouldn't invalidate Khaled's sexuality. Others behaviour is somewhat irrelevant though, it just deflects from the topic at hand.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I have seen that too and spoken out - literally in the last 24 hours I told a user we shouldn't invalidate Khaled's sexuality. Others behaviour is somewhat irrelevant though, it just deflects from the topic at hand.

Yeah I've seen that I'm glad you've spoken out. For what it's worth I wasn't aiming it at you.

These topics do deflect big time , can get annoying.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Can Ali just shut the hell up , can tell it annoys her that Khaled is popular on the outside world. And why is she going on about the other group " protecting themselves and not voting for anyone else", first of all ..I'm pretty sure she's hovering over nom talk ...but ok BB we'll let that one off .

But I'm sorry but isn't she also protecting her friends!??? , she's never going to nominate Lily , Nathan or Dean . So why is she so salty at the other group being " strong" . She wants Hanah on her side , but Hanah is still friends with the boys.

For once Lily said something somewhat optimistic by saying " it will bring us all closer together", of course Ali had to burst that with her negativity...by basically saying " no " .

The woman has zero intellectual or moral consistency. She only cares about others in there as far as she can use them to be human shields to get her to the final.

I think that she now understands that grooming Hanah over won't work and that her little play there failed.

What we saw at the end last night was the realisation that her minions are just not liked outside the house and all she can rely on to survive is them being less liked than she is.

She knows the week that she is put up against Lily she is toast.

[Beso]

Like goldheart, think the best of.

Dislike beso, think the worst of.

Its that simple fur you garfie, thats why you claim to know why I said it..


Real reason us I thought 3 queers was catchy, and seeing as ali named them the queers, and there was 3 of them, and because if the bedroom chat about influencing hanah to come to their group of 3, I used the catchphrase 3 queer alliance for them.

I also stated I wouldnt use it again because it may upset people but you've skirted past that and claimed I'm continuing to use it even after the hurt it can cause was explained.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by BBXX

The issue wasn't with you using the word queer, it was the context it was used in - it was you calling them the ' 3 Queer Alliance' when they themselves haven't coined that phrase. They are not in an alliance of three, you've taken it from when Ali was talking about the triangle and said that in the middle and the bottom are the "queer housemates". Totally different.

Would you group people of colour together and call them a "POC-Alliance" or what about if a few HMs who happened to be friends shared a religion? That would be equally inappropriate.

It's like when you called Henry and Jordan's relationship a "gay parade". Yes, they were both gay but would you ever refer to any straight relationship as the "straight parade".

It's completely unnecessary.

When do any of us ever have the luxury of determining when and what others call us? That's not reality. Ali got called red witch of all things. I see that as completely offensive, but it's also just as funny. Should I exorcise (no witch puns intended) the part of me that has a sense of humor. I'm sure they didn't get permission to "coin" that term. I feel like the above stance is too rigid and isn't willing to accept that there is subjectivity when it comes to the perceptions surrounding the use of words.

For example, I don't like that Ali took up the red witch term. I feel like that term whatever Marcello & co intended left a hurtful energy on her time in the house. But she enjoys using it, so what am I to say? (And costume looked awesome).

Where people others use names that they call themselves know most will think are vulgar or happen to be one of those wildcard words (Queer is one of them...) that can warrant a pro-acceptance celebration one minute and pitchforks the next. I just don't play that game. It's deceptive. I think it is ridiculous when the LGBT, or I should say not even the LGBT people themselves but the narcs who now hijacked them... they think they can a plethora of words and tell other people how to use them... **** that... and there comes a point when enough is enough and we all should stop playing the game. Beso is one of those people who don't play that shitty game and I appreciate him for that

The only meaningful context here is it's being used to comment on a highly edited TV show. This is a TV show forum so we should be able to comment on what we perceive about the house dynamics. If he sees people building an alliance based on an alliance of Queers (perfectly valid use of that term imv, but perceptions obviously vary )... I might think that the argument could be made that isn't entirely true, that she may chuck Dean at the earlier convenience...

It is a game and I think that the seriousness aspect at which Ali is approaching the game is hurting her time in there more than helping her. She does not have to see things as groups and she shouldn't take offense at things as groups, but it is a choice to her... and a good argument to have would be about how other people also only see groups and how these terms/etc, get floated about and cause impressions because inevitably when you start seeing people as only being in certain groups, then it can easily create negative feelings/associations for those people... Beso calling them Queer for example, shouldn't have a negative connotation, but we're implying that it could and I think that's troublesome also ... hopefully that was clear, but I'm open to being wrong on any of it, tbh... (Except Beso, I like Beso )

[Beso]

Originally Posted by BBXX

None of that was a good defence, I hope you understand. I'm not engaging with you on this any further, the topic had been derailed enough.

Coming back to post about me in a long winded attempt at a gotcha moment to another user then saying the above is nothing more than a **** house move.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by vesavius

The woman has zero intellectual or moral consistency. She only cares about others in there as far as she can use them to be human shields to get her to the final.

I think that she now understands that grooming Hanah over won't work and that her little play there failed.

What we saw at the end last night was the realisation that her minions are just not liked outside the house and all she can rely on to survive is them being less liked than she is.

She knows the week that she is put up against Lily she is toast.

I'm actually fed up of how Lily is clinging to her every word, they're both joint at the hip. Just think how the dynamic would change if Ali wasn't around... maybe Lily would stop thinking about nominations and the whole 'us against them ' mentality so much.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I'm actually fed up of how Lily is clinging to her every word, they're both joint at the hip. Just think how the dynamic would change if Ali wasn't around... maybe Lily would stop thinking about nominations and the whole 'us against them ' mentality so much.

Imagine if you were Ali though... Knowing that your closest ally in there will also inevitably be your end but you can't even cut them loose.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Imagine if you were Ali though... Knowing that your closest ally in there will also inevitably be your end but you can't even cut them loose.

Yeah it is kind of funny , she's using Lily....but Lily will also beat her in the game .

[Beso]

Thank you @Maru the feeling has always been mutual.