[bots]

the centre ground is where the majority of the planet reside in politics. It's laughable to criticise that position

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bots

the centre ground is where the majority of the planet reside in politics. It's laughable to criticise that position

Indeed. I can understand the point, Slim, that a lot of people on the right CLAIM the centre because they're not yet emboldened enough to declare that they are in fact on the right - but that's "internet stuff" / SoMed and forum rhetoric.

In the real world, the vast majority of people lie "around the centre" on the majority of issues and will shift left or right on specific issues usually depending on personal biases and experiences. Free-thinking people at least, not copy-paste-opinion Trumpists etc. or their equivalent to the left, which obviously does exist.

It depends on the people you encounter and the circles you move in. These days the vast majority of people I work with are just-left-of-centre and (believe me) it doesn't mean that there aren't strong opinions and convictions. They're just rational, reasoned, adult opinions with some element of practicality, rather than internet naval-gazing, idealism and point-scoring. Which I will concede - we're ALL guilty of. It's a guilty pleasure. It's not the real world, which can be easy to forget.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Quantum Bauble

Indeed. I can understand the point, Slim, that a lot of people on the right CLAIM the centre because they're not yet emboldened enough to declare that they are in fact on the right - but that's "internet stuff" / SoMed and forum rhetoric.

In the real world, the vast majority of people lie "around the centre" on the majority of issues and will shift left or right on specific issues usually depending on personal biases and experiences. Free-thinking people at least, not copy-paste-opinion Trumpists etc. or their equivalent to the left, which obviously does exist.

It depends on the people you encounter and the circles you move in. These days the vast majority of people I work with are just-left-of-centre and (believe me) it doesn't mean that there aren't strong opinions and convictions. They're just rational, reasoned, adult opinions with some element of practicality, rather than internet naval-gazing, idealism and point-scoring. Which I will concede - we're ALL guilty of. It's a guilty pleasure. It's not the real world, which can be easy to forget.

Yep, agree with you and bots, I would consider myself centre but left leaning. I would never like to identify wholly and unquestionably with either side or ideology, each issue is different and I want to think about each one on it's own merits

[Alf]

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve

Yep, agree with you and bots, I would consider myself centre but left leaning. I would never like to identify wholly and unquestionably with either side or ideology, each issue is different and I want to think about each one on it's own merits

Quantin bauble sees himself as intelligent because he got indoctrinated at university. But the reality is that he's thick as pig sh!t.

Where did his attendance at university get him, being a failed bookie, that's where.

Go ahead, delete this post. Whilst at the same time agreeing with his post, which obviously had an insulting dig at me as being a Trump supporter.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Quantum Bauble

Indeed. I can understand the point, Slim, that a lot of people on the right CLAIM the centre because they're not yet emboldened enough to declare that they are in fact on the right - but that's "internet stuff" / SoMed and forum rhetoric.

In the real world, the vast majority of people lie "around the centre" on the majority of issues and will shift left or right on specific issues usually depending on personal biases and experiences. Free-thinking people at least, not copy-paste-opinion Trumpists etc. or their equivalent to the left, which obviously does exist.

It depends on the people you encounter and the circles you move in. These days the vast majority of people I work with are just-left-of-centre and (believe me) it doesn't mean that there aren't strong opinions and convictions. They're just rational, reasoned, adult opinions with some element of practicality, rather than internet naval-gazing, idealism and point-scoring. Which I will concede - we're ALL guilty of. It's a guilty pleasure. It's not the real world, which can be easy to forget.

What is centrism? What are the political aims and objectives of "the centre?"

Don't rock the boatism? We live in a world where right wing media rules the roost, so this is pretty much the exclusive doctrine we get shoved down our throats on a constant loop, so which boat are we fighting against rocking?

The left won the election recently in France. The centrist, Macron, put a stop to that. He wouldn't have prevented Le Pen taking office. Is Macron a based online nerd?

America has been working to unseat any leftist in South America for over 100 years. They also have caused most of the issues (along with the UK) in the middle east, by replacing any semi-progressive government.

Hitler was invited into power by social democrats.

Lets look at your political positions. When it comes to social issues, you hold views that are closer to the reactionary right - not talking about trans stuff, but I believe I've read you say that you would ban relationships between a 21 and 30yr olds, for example (obviously this was hypothetical as you don't have that power). I have no idea what your views are towards economic policy, because it's not really policy you've shown much interest in discussing, I believe (if I've missed your manifesto on economic redistribution, then I apologise, but I don't think I have). Economically hidden, socially conservative. Folks with those views up and down the country are being radicalised into reform by culture war issues, they are not joining the communist workers party. Because I somewhat know you, I wouldn't think you are a reform voter, but if you don't recognise what I've just laid out, as a real measurement of British Centrism, then I would implore you to think about it again.

Take Cherie - a former LD/Lab/Green voter, fully on board with tommy and Nigels riots

Take kate - supported Corbyns labour, but now a full Robinson acolyte.

Is this the centrism that the vast majority hold? Are Kate and Cherie victims of social media and being permanently online?

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

What is centrism? What are the political aims and objectives of "the centre?"

Don't rock the boatism? We live in a world where right wing media rules the roost, so this is pretty much the exclusive doctrine we get shoved down our throats on a constant loop, so which boat are we fighting against rocking?

The left won the election recently in France. The centrist, Macron, put a stop to that. He wouldn't have prevented Le Pen taking office. Is Macron a based online nerd?

America has been working to unseat any leftist in South America for over 100 years. They also have caused most of the issues (along with the UK) in the middle east, by replacing any semi-progressive government.

Hitler was invited into power by social democrats.

Lets look at your political positions. When it comes to social issues, you hold views that are closer to the reactionary right - not talking about trans stuff, but I believe I've read you say that you would ban relationships between a 21 and 30yr olds, for example (obviously this was hypothetical as you don't have that power). I have no idea what your views are towards economic policy, because it's not really policy you've shown much interest in discussing, I believe (if I've missed your manifesto on economic redistribution, then I apologise, but I don't think I have). Economically hidden, socially conservative. Folks with those views up and down the country are being radicalised into reform by culture war issues, they are not joining the communist workers party. Because I somewhat know you, I wouldn't think you are a reform voter, but if you don't recognise what I've just laid out, as a real measurement of British Centrism, then I would implore you to think about it again.

Take Cherie - a former LD/Lab/Green voter, fully on board with tommy and Nigels riots

Take kate - supported Corbyns labour, but now a full Robinson acolyte.

Is this the centrism, that the vast majority hold? Are Kate and Cherie victims of social media and being permanently online?

Erm I think you are conflating 'fully onboard' with an understanding as to why people are hacked off at the inaction of government whoever they are to address the pretty lengthy backlog of claims and get people either able to work or on their way ....I dont think I ever backed mindless hooliganism

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Cherie Christmas

Erm I think you are conflating 'fully onboard' with an understanding as to why people are hacked off at the inaction of government whoever they are to address the pretty lengthy backlog of claims and get people either able to work or on their way ....I dont think I ever backed mindless hooliganism

A distinction without a difference in this case, in my opinion. When you parrot Robinson propaganda about "concerned citizens," then, although we're not friends, I don't believe you to be mindless enough to just repeat the same indoctrinated far right Mantra that was busy lighting up hotels and the fuzz.

[The Slim Reaper]

Greens the only progressive party on that list.

[In the Drunk Tank]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Greens the only progressive party on that list.

Starmer's reset speech the other day has had a good effect then

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Greens the only progressive party on that list.

Reform's ahead of the Tories?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

What is centrism? What are the political aims and objectives of "the centre?"

This kind of buys into the idea that everyone is tribalistic, and wants to fit neatly into a defined box.

Some people just have a string of connected or disparate ideals to which they cling, and these don't always perfectly coalesce with an existing ideology.

I reject all labels - I like to say this is because I'm above your puny earthlings' politics but it's really because I barely have a coherent set of beliefs

My only consistencies which have carried through my various phases are environmentalism (and at one point I was even against that for like a week, but I can't remember what my "reasoning" was) and dislike of big companies. The latter ties in to the next one, which is I'm against the exploitation of the Little Guy. All of this in isolation might make someone think I'm a Leftie.

But the above are all why I'm against mass uncapped immigration - I don't trust any government to respect the Green Belt when it comes to excreting crappy new builds, while the brownfields will remain untouched, and maybe unused. And high numbers of non-specific workers coming in doesn't exactly help Darren Down The Road.

I'm also in favour of women and girls keeping their sex-segregated spaces and sports.

And those two points might make me look "right wing."

But to quote Treebeard - I'm not altogether on anyone's side, because no-one is altogether on my side. And I'm certainly no friend of those tree-killing Orcs and their masters


But meh, feel free to refute any of that, I barely give politics more than a surface level thought, I'd be relatively easy to swing

[user104658]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

What is centrism? What are the political aims and objectives of "the centre?"

Don't rock the boatism? We live in a world where right wing media rules the roost, so this is pretty much the exclusive doctrine we get shoved down our throats on a constant loop, so which boat are we fighting against rocking?

The left won the election recently in France. The centrist, Macron, put a stop to that. He wouldn't have prevented Le Pen taking office. Is Macron a based online nerd?

America has been working to unseat any leftist in South America for over 100 years. They also have caused most of the issues (along with the UK) in the middle east, by replacing any semi-progressive government.

Hitler was invited into power by social democrats.

Lets look at your political positions. When it comes to social issues, you hold views that are closer to the reactionary right - not talking about trans stuff, but I believe I've read you say that you would ban relationships between a 21 and 30yr olds, for example (obviously this was hypothetical as you don't have that power). I have no idea what your views are towards economic policy, because it's not really policy you've shown much interest in discussing, I believe (if I've missed your manifesto on economic redistribution, then I apologise, but I don't think I have). Economically hidden, socially conservative. Folks with those views up and down the country are being radicalised into reform by culture war issues, they are not joining the communist workers party. Because I somewhat know you, I wouldn't think you are a reform voter, but if you don't recognise what I've just laid out, as a real measurement of British Centrism, then I would implore you to think about it again.

Take Cherie - a former LD/Lab/Green voter, fully on board with tommy and Nigels riots

Take kate - supported Corbyns labour, but now a full Robinson acolyte.

Is this the centrism that the vast majority hold? Are Kate and Cherie victims of social media and being permanently online?

Part of the issue Slim is that I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what centrism actually entails; it's not balancing on a left/right seesaw hoping to find a centrist equilibrium on every political stance, this is the misunderstanding that leads to people who don't tribally align themselves to either the left or right as "fence sitting". I come under fire for taking strong positions on pretty much any subject you can name on this forum. Not for fence sitting. If anything, for being "overly confident of a strong opinion". I get that same accusation from people on the clear left and right. Not accusations of over-neutrality; I'm branded a MSM brainwashed wokey by the Reform crew and a right-leaning conservative by what remains of the forum's social left. Frequently on the same day. Occasionally on the same thread. It's a real rollercoaster sometimes .

For the bit in bold you're incorrect I have never said that I would legally "ban" relationships between adults of any age; what I have said is that I find relationships with large age gaps, where one person is young (probably under 25, definitely under 21) to be highly suspect, personally morally questionable, and if a friend my age started banging a 21 year old I'd not be particularly interested in continuing to call them a friend. I don't want it banned, I wouldn't introduce any aspect of legislation or legality into that at all. But therein lies the problem, maybe? That you automatically assume that a moral personal stance MUST be related to a corresponding legal or political stance? That isn't the real world as I experience it, for most sensible adults, it's the realm of ... well, internet BS ... a warped reality that really reflects nothing particularly real, and yet increasingly spills over into the real world, because you have idiots that have no comprehension of what they're reading protesting and rioting for reasons they don't actually understand. Because they were told it was the way to go, by those they politically align themselves with, and who they trust do know what they're talking about.

As for economic stance that one is fairly simple; I don't talk about it on here because there's no point talking about it on here. The sort of "right and left" being referred to on most of the internet, and 100% on this forum, has absolutely jack to do with economics . We're talking about populations who need a calculator to figure out 20% VAT. Who believe that the answer to everyone having more money is everyone getting better jobs. Waste of time. It's not a conversation worth even entertaining.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Quantum Bauble

Part of the issue Slim is that I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what centrism actually entails; it's not balancing on a left/right seesaw hoping to find a centrist equilibrium on every political stance, this is the misunderstanding that leads to people who don't tribally align themselves to either the left or right as "fence sitting". I come under fire for taking strong positions on pretty much any subject you can name on this forum. Not for fence sitting. If anything, for being "overly confident of a strong opinion". I get that same accusation from people on the clear left and right. Not accusations of over-neutrality; I'm branded a MSM brainwashed wokey by the Reform crew and a right-leaning conservative by what remains of the forum's social left. Frequently on the same day. Occasionally on the same thread. It's a real rollercoaster sometimes .

For the bit in bold you're incorrect I have never said that I would legally "ban" relationships between adults of any age; what I have said is that I find relationships with large age gaps, where one person is young (probably under 25, definitely under 21) to be highly suspect, personally morally questionable, and if a friend my age started banging a 21 year old I'd not be particularly interested in continuing to call them a friend. I don't want it banned, I wouldn't introduce any aspect of legislation or legality into that at all. But therein lies the problem, maybe? That you automatically assume that a moral personal stance MUST be related to a corresponding legal or political stance? That isn't the real world as I experience it, for most sensible adults, it's the realm of ... well, internet BS ... a warped reality that really reflects nothing particularly real, and yet increasingly spills over into the real world, because you have idiots that have no comprehension of what they're reading protesting and rioting for reasons they don't actually understand. Because they were told it was the way to go, by those they politically align themselves with, and who they trust do know what they're talking about.

As for economic stance that one is fairly simple; I don't talk about it on here because there's no point talking about it on here. The sort of "right and left" being referred to on most of the internet, and 100% on this forum, has absolutely jack to do with economics . We're talking about populations who need a calculator to figure out 20% VAT. Who believe that the answer to everyone having more money is everyone getting better jobs. Waste of time. It's not a conversation worth even entertaining.

That's a fair reply, but we have some differences, obviously

Firstly, any accusation thrown at you regarding holding strong or confident opinions, is also thrown at me, and I have many more differences with the TIBB echo chamber than you do.

I don't have a misunderstanding of what centrism is imo, but we can agree to disagree. I would turn that around and say that in the context you're using it, it's this mysterious unknowable, that can be all things to all men (and women - before I get called a misogynist again ), and allows people to float anywhere they want without ever having to reckon with any consequences. I'm not sure you'd argue against it being primarily a status quoist position, which has for the last 50 years been right wing neoliberalism.
I also don't think there is an economic conversation to be had with professor Trumpet, regarding Marx, and yet most people would know where my economic ideology lies.


As for 21-30, I apologise for misremembering and misrepresenting your views, but I still think you are way over on the social conservatism side of things - which is completely fine, and I have no hate towards you taking a moral stance, as my whole economic ideology is also based on personal morality.

I also wasn't using the example of you in the negative, but if we break down the 2 areas of politics most commonly used for simplicity of use - social and economic, then pointing out that when push comes to shove, socially conservative, economically hidden voters, will generally (not 100%) move rightwards, I don't think that's a controversial statement, especially with what history teaches us, and what is happening right now in British politics.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by bots

the centre ground is where the majority of the planet reside in politics. It's laughable to criticise that position

You're a tory. Remember when you pretended you weren't, and then Girth posted a quote of you saying "I'm a tory?" Classic bots