[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Holly Christmas

Aah Mock, my cynical little sweetheart

I love reading your opinions, you're very passionate about the show, and always a good read.

However lol, as judges may say...I'm going to disagree with some of your assessment.

I do get your point of view and there will be people who share it, so I'm not going to be negative, just want to say that for me personally...well he won despite the disability and not because of it. I even forgot about the blind aspect while watching him he was that good in my eyes. It just makes him even more incredible that he had such a disability at all. You'd be forgiven for thinking he could see! The lifts, jumping off chairs, utterly amazing. I enjoyed every performance he gave.

I'm so pleased and proud he won in the end even though my votes went to JB who was also utterly off the scale.

I thoroughly loved all 4 last night, and felt any of them would be totally worthy winners.

I feel that the other finalists were genuinely thrilled with him winning, it was written on their faces. Nobody pulled a face or anything. So I don't think there are any grievances there either. I think they were all just very proud to get to the final against such strong competition this year. A truly great series.

Chris you're a hero of mine, and a graceful champion. I've loved you throughout.

Xxxx

Fair enough I suppose, and tbf in the grand scheme of things Chris winning Strictly Come Dancing is not the biggest press for concern that we have in the world right now, far from it.

I just miss the days when a Strictly winner happened and there weren't some big theme behind it, Ellie came close last year for me, but the whole talking like a 9 year old ruined it for me if I'm to be really picky about it with her.

Because I have had loads of Seasons of Strictly where my personal favourite didn't win, but I want to feel like the winner won because the public just liked them.

Like to make sense of what I'm saying I'll use Jay from The Wanted, when he won that was just it, there was no soundbites to make his win feel special to his fans, he just won through his actions on the Show, plus a really good Jive.

But that was it for Jay, he weren't anything out of this world being put on a huge pedestal compared to his fellow contestants.

The same can be said for other winners like Caroline Flack, Abbey Clancy, Ore, and Louis Smith.

They all won and there was never any patronizing commentary from the judges, nor did the public treat any of them like they were little kids, which does really put me off the disabled contestants on Strictly if I'm to be entirely honest. It's one of the main reasons why I was never a big fan of Tasha either in this series.

I get that you liked him though Kate, and tbf there's a lot worse that you and all of us could be doing than voting for someone to win Strictly.

[Kate!]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

Fair enough I suppose, and tbf in the grand scheme of things Chris winning Strictly Come Dancing is not the biggest press for concern that we have in the world right now, far from it.

I just miss the days when a Strictly winner happened and there weren't some big theme behind it, Ellie came close last year for me, but the whole talking like a 9 year old ruined it for me if I'm to be really picky about it with her.

Because I have had loads of Seasons of Strictly where my personal favourite didn't win, but I want to feel like the winner won because the public just liked them.

Like to make sense of what I'm saying I'll use Jay from The Wanted, when he won that was just it, there was no soundbites to make his win feel special to his fans, he just won through his actions on the Show, plus a really good Jive.

But that was it for Jay, he weren't anything out of this world being put on a huge pedestal compared to his fellow contestants.

The same can be said for other winners like Caroline Flack, Abbey Clancy, Ore, and Louis Smith.

They all won and there was never any patronizing commentary from the judges, nor did the public treat any of them like they were little kids, which does really put me off the disabled contestants on Strictly if I'm to be entirely honest. It's one of the main reasons why I was never a big fan of Tasha either in this series.

I get that you liked him though Kate, and tbf there's a lot worse that you and all of us could be doing than voting for someone to win Strictly.

Another great post Mock, as I said I always enjoy reading what you write, it's coherent and engaging. Thank you my fellow Strictly Fan for your enthusiasm x

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Holly Christmas

Another great post Mock, as I said I always enjoy reading what you write, it's coherent and engaging. Thank you my fellow Strictly Fan for your enthusiasm x

Thanks Kate, I enjoy reading your posts too.

Especially when on differing sides, because you might help me understand the other side's POV a bit better.

[Kate!]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

Thanks Kate, I enjoy reading your posts too.

Especially when on differing sides, because you might help me understand the other side's POV a bit better.

Same here Mock.

I love that bond you and Joey have with your favourites each year. You really do share tastes.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Holly Christmas

Same here Mock.

I love that bond you and Joey have with your favourites each year. You really do share tastes.

Thanks Kate.

Joey is a fantastic friend on here, he just seems to understand my mindset really well, even if he might not always agree with me.

[Kate!]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

Thanks Kate.

Joey is a fantastic friend on here, he just seems to understand my mindset really well, even if he might not always agree with me.

I'm the same with Vanessa, we seem to like the same contestants etc. And we never fallout over minor differences which are rare anyway.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Holly Christmas

I'm the same with Vanessa, we seem to like the same contestants etc. And we never fallout over minor differences which are rare anyway.

It can be great to have that kind of friendship on the Forum I think.

And I love your friendship with Vanessa.

[Nicky91]

alright

what a final that was!!!!!!!!

i wanna take back my words, about Chris not being a deserving glitterball champion, because those 3 dances of his last night, wow, i especially love how joyous his showdance was, with all the best bits of his strictly journey, also loved him singing along to that iconic track


loved the poem from Craig to him



all 4 would've been worthy champions but like what our tv icon Henny Huisman says ''er kan er maar een de winnaar zijn - there can only be one winner''


Dianne definitely deserves the glitterball for her hard work with Chris, can be seen to some as a sympathy win, but tbh mind you that Chris unlike the other contestants also isn't able to watch his performances back, he fully has to trust Dianne to do everything right, to explain everything right to him


i do believe they also remain friends, Dianne is friends with almost all of her past celeb partners, including her first partner, Rev Richard (whom she only lasted 3 weeks with)




JB & Lauren also did amazing i thought, and their motown showdance was phenomenal!


Tasha & Aljaz had me in tears as well, i also believe they will also remain friends, can deffo see Tasha going shopping with Janette for example, or them watching Tasha in those dance competitions, also very cute her brother came over all the way from australia i mean if they can manage that for Dianne's parents, why not for Tasha's brother too, very lovely


Sarah & Vito, that cabaret showdance was so artsy, so stylish, so cool also Sarah has a child with down syndrome i saw him sitting next to her mom and someone else so that's why i was thinking that




as for the eliminated group number, shame Nick Knowles couldn't be there in person, recently had a successful knee surgery, wishing him a speedy recovery so he can continue with his shows again, Paul Merson probably had football pundit duties couldn't be there in time i think, but lovely their faces were there anyway

all those best bits, @Santa Goth Sam's rocky horror moment


Jamie with the ketchup song


Wynne's operatic moment of wonderfulness



Toyah with her cougar nutbush city limits filth



all in all a superb finish to a superb 20th anniversary series

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

The one time that I didn't want to be right though Joey.

I'm sure Chris is a decent guy (when he isn't just cracking jokes all of the time) but the Show knows that it's Human instinct to root for the "underdog" and obviously there is probably no bigger underdog in a dancing contest than a blind person, because again the majority of the public are going to pity a blind person and vote for them to make themselves feel better, and that it's "the right thing to do." And "look at how amazing he is doing, let's see how the others danced if they were blindfolded." It can border on being patronizing sometimes imo.

And I just know that if I was one of the other finalists (as I am a very competitive person) I would not want to feel like I wasted my time on the Show for 13 weeks, because there was a big sympathy vote going on towards someone else, that would make me livid tbh.

I agree with you in the main Mock.

I actually do know people who were voting for him and one reason was he was blind, the other for his humerous comments.
It has been for some time, it's not a dancing competition really, which is sad in itself however that's where it is now.

It was a really good final and some incredible dancing from in the main only amateurs.
I was disappointed in the end but 3 of my own former favourites on the Strictly journey were out over the last weeks.
It wouldn't have made any difference though, as I still agree with you that this series was decided just about in the very early weeks of this series.

Which doesn't bode well for future series.
However well done to all the finalists even though none had any real chance of winning.
Plus well done to Chris and Dianne.
There's no doubt she was a brilliant teacher to Chris.
However again she's not the only brilliant teacher among the professionals.
Near all do their very best too with their partner and do a really great job too.
With little to no recognition for that in their cases.

[AnnieK]

I knew Chris would win, I wanted Sarah but also thought JB would have been worthy.

However, I just don't think you can take away Chris' achievement. For a blind person who has never seen the steps he was asked to perform so has no point of reference on how they should be done other that being shown through feel and word, his achievement was nothing short of outstanding.

If all the other dancers closed their eyes to learn the dances, they would still be at an advantage as they have seen the steps performed before.

I think saying it's a sympathy vote is a pretty basic response....possibly admiration at his tenacity and determination...but I don't know one person who has expressed sympathy towards Chris.

And....he danced better than a lot of the sighted contestants. Particularly in ballroom

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by AnnieKristmas

I knew Chris would win, I wanted Sarah but also thought JB would have been worthy.

However, I just don't think you can take away Chris' achievement. For a blind person who has never seen the steps he was asked to perform so has no point of reference on how they should be done other that being shown through feel and word, his achievement was nothing short of outstanding.

If all the other dancers closed their eyes to learn the dances, they would still be at an advantage as they have seen the steps performed before.

I think saying it's a sympathy vote is a pretty basic response....possibly admiration at his tenacity and determination...but I don't know one person who has expressed sympathy towards Chris.

And....he danced better than a lot of the sighted contestants. Particularly in ballroom

Nobody is taking away the fact that Chris's standard is impressive for a blind person, at least I hope nobody is anyway.

I do personally think though that Chris was starting to become one of the three worst dancers in the competition after Paul Merson got eliminated.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I agree with you in the main Mock.

I actually do know people who were voting for him and one reason was he was blind, the other for his humerous comments.
It has been for some time, it's not a dancing competition really, which is sad in itself however that's where it is now.

It was a really good final and some incredible dancing from in the main only amateurs.
I was disappointed in the end but 3 of my own former favourites on the Strictly journey were out over the last weeks.
It wouldn't have made any difference though, as I still agree with you that this series was decided just about in the very early weeks of this series.

Which doesn't bode well for future series.
However well done to all the finalists even though none had any real chance of winning.
Plus well done to Chris and Dianne.
There's no doubt she was a brilliant teacher to Chris.
However again she's not the only brilliant teacher among the professionals.
Near all do their very best too with their partner and do a really great job too.
With little to no recognition for that in their cases.

I 100% agree with your points Joey.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

alright

what a final that was!!!!!!!!

i wanna take back my words, about Chris not being a deserving glitterball champion, because those 3 dances of his last night, wow, i especially love how joyous his showdance was, with all the best bits of his strictly journey, also loved him singing along to that iconic track


loved the poem from Craig to him



all 4 would've been worthy champions but like what our tv icon Henny Huisman says ''er kan er maar een de winnaar zijn - there can only be one winner''


Dianne definitely deserves the glitterball for her hard work with Chris, can be seen to some as a sympathy win, but tbh mind you that Chris unlike the other contestants also isn't able to watch his performances back, he fully has to trust Dianne to do everything right, to explain everything right to him


i do believe they also remain friends, Dianne is friends with almost all of her past celeb partners, including her first partner, Rev Richard (whom she only lasted 3 weeks with)




JB & Lauren also did amazing i thought, and their motown showdance was phenomenal!


Tasha & Aljaz had me in tears as well, i also believe they will also remain friends, can deffo see Tasha going shopping with Janette for example, or them watching Tasha in those dance competitions, also very cute her brother came over all the way from australia i mean if they can manage that for Dianne's parents, why not for Tasha's brother too, very lovely


Sarah & Vito, that cabaret showdance was so artsy, so stylish, so cool also Sarah has a child with down syndrome i saw him sitting next to her mom and someone else so that's why i was thinking that




as for the eliminated group number, shame Nick Knowles couldn't be there in person, recently had a successful knee surgery, wishing him a speedy recovery so he can continue with his shows again, Paul Merson probably had football pundit duties couldn't be there in time i think, but lovely their faces were there anyway

all those best bits, @Santa Goth Sam's rocky horror moment


Jamie with the ketchup song


Wynne's operatic moment of wonderfulness



Toyah with her cougar nutbush city limits filth



all in all a superb finish to a superb 20th anniversary series

I will never forget such a superb performance.

[Barry.]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

My main thing that I'm not happy about with Chris's win is that he won for reasons that were away from genuine fan popularity or dancing quality, he won because of his disability which ruined the Show right from the start, as there were loads of the audience that were going to vote for him regardless of anything that he said or his performances.

And anyone that had a remote chance at gaining support as the numbers got lower were removed before they were given that chance.

Imo as Rose and Chris (and a myriad of other disabled contestants have shown over the years on Strictly) there needs to be one of three solutions offered to the table imo.

1. The BBC creates a spin-off dancing contest for disabled contestants, so they're all competing on an equal turf to each other, thus no advantages in the vote towards one disabled contestant amongst non-disabled contestants.

2. The judges and the public learn to treat the disabled contestants the same as every other contestant on the Show, something that after all of these years still hasn't been mastered by either group.

Or 3. If the first two can't be achieved then the disabled contestants need to be banned from taking part on the Show, because it is meant to be an equal competition for every contestant to have a shot at winning the Show, and it's been clear to see this year that it was certainly not equal for someone like Shayne or Wynne to compete with Chris in the public vote, regardless of how they came across or danced.

The first one wouldn’t work. All disabilities are different. I mean the Paralympics has different levels and different leagues for disabled people such as sight, missing limps etc so that would just not work at all.


Chris was a great winner, not just for his disability but also his dancing wasn’t bad, he scored in the 30s, that’s great. It’s not like he was getting 18, 19 etc. I did want Sarah to win mind, however, I’m not angry he won at all

[millyrose]

Originally Posted by Baileysguzzla

I am so so so over the moon Chris and Dianne won. Yes he wasn't the strongest dancer, probably the weakest of the 4. However as was the overall theme of the final, that partnership between Chris and Dianne was one of the most beautiful partnerships I have ever had the pleasure of witnessing on strictly come dancing. I'm firstly over the moon that finally Dianne has managed to lift a Glitterball, but Chris wow, it isn't a sympathy vote as members on here are saying, as I feel no sympathy for him, there's no reason to feel sorry for him and he doesn't feel sorry for himself, he's an exceptional man, that absolutely defied my early expectations of him, and they absolutely deserved it

But huge congratulations to the other finalists who were all absolutely brilliant and delivered my most favourite final of all time. Thank you

Spot on, i'm also over the moon Chris and Dianne won they where fantastic, it was a brilliant night they where all great.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

Nobody is taking away the fact that Chris's standard is impressive for a blind person, at least I hope nobody is anyway.

I do personally think though that Chris was starting to become one of the three worst dancers in the competition after Paul Merson got eliminated.

You say you're not taking anything away from him but you have suggested that disabled contestants should be banned from participating?? In a world where they are already highly disadvantaged and at times discriminated against, you want them further discriminated in case the public see just how much harder it is for them to attain a level that their able bodied counterparts do? WOW.

I get that you were pissed off Sam was eliminated probably before she should have been....but it's pretty low to suggest that not being able bodied means they shouldn't be allowed to take part

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

Nobody is taking away the fact that Chris's standard is impressive for a blind person, at least I hope nobody is anyway.

I do personally think though that Chris was starting to become one of the three worst dancers in the competition after Paul Merson got eliminated.

I get totally where you're coming from.
I know you mean nothing nasty re Chris.

As I said earlier I know people who were ONLY voting for Chris because he was blind.

Furthermore, and never wanting to be impressed with the current judging panel there is.
The announcement at the start of the show was the judges votes in the final were only for guidance.
Well they had him last of the 4 finalists all through.

Personally I think particularly his first dance was far weaker than the other 3 finalists
The final was great from all 4 finalists.
However again as I said before, you have said from virtually week 3, that he would win.
You were right.
Plus it is in my view in a big part because he was blind.

I loved the final but it's either about dancing or it's not.
I guess now it's not.
Maybe it's never really been so.
It's not really a good show if it's only going to be filled with just more supporting acts for one other who has special circumstances.

[Livia]

If anyone thinks Chris's dancing wasn't good enough for the final, go away and study his footwork.

SOOOO sick of the 'pity votes' comments and the anti-disabled rhetoric. Thank God the majority see it for what it is, the joyful overcoming of something that's stopped people from dancing in the past. It's so disrespectful to Chris and the people who voted for him. It takes the shine off the whole show for me and seems a bit spiteful.

I wanted to see Sarah win, but I'm delighted for Chris. If you can't get on board with something so uplifting and give credit where it's due, maybe Strictly isn't for you.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I get totally where you're coming from.
I know you mean nothing nasty re Chris.

As I said earlier I know people who were ONLY voting for Chris because he was blind.

Furthermore, and never wanting to be impressed with the current judging panel there is.
The announcement at the start of the show was the judges votes in the final were only for guidance.
Well they had him last of the 4 finalists all through.

Personally I think particularly his first dance was far weaker than the other 3 finalists
The final was great from all 4 finalists.
However again as I said before, you have said from virtually week 3, that he would win.
You were right.
Plus it is in my view in a big part because he was blind.

I loved the final but it's either about dancing or it's not.
I guess now it's not.
Maybe it's never really been so.
It's not really a good show if it's only going to be filled with just more supporting acts for one other who has special circumstances.

Some people only vote for someone because they're pretty. Mock liked Sam who definitely wasn't the best dancer by any means. People like who they like. If you're looking for fair judging, maybe follow the national and world championships. If you want to see non-dancers go on a journey and improve every week, and one which us open to a public vote it's Strictly. Had the judges been called on alone to mark it, they'd have chosen Tasha, the beautiful girl with previous dance training which is unfair in itself.

I really am shocked at the response if some people to Chris's win... People I never would have expect to have reacted this way.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Some people only vote for someone because they're pretty. Mock liked Sam who definitely wasn't the best dancer by any means. People like who they like. If you're looking for fair judging, maybe follow the national and world championships. If you want to see non-dancers go on a journey and improve every week, and one which us open to a public vote it's Strictly. Had the judges been called on alone to mark it, they'd have chosen Tasha, the beautiful girl with previous dance training which is unfair in itself.

I really am shocked at the response if some people to Chris's win... People I never would have expect to have reacted this way.

Well apologies for my having a view.
However I'll respect yours while still holding onto my own.

I don't really think anyone is being anti disabled at all.
I'm certainly not.
That's an outrageous claim to make, in my view..

I've said the final was great by all 4 finalists however the win dampened my own personal enjoyment of this series.
Just as it would probably on other reality shows such as on Dancing on Ice, Big Brother or even I'm a Celeb but I've given up watching I'm a Celebrity.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well apologies for my having a view.
However I'll respect yours while still holding onto my own.

I don't really think anyone is being anti disabled at all.
I'm certainly not.
That's an outrageous claim to make, in my view..

I've said the final was great by all 4 finalists however the win dampened my own personal enjoyment of this series.
Just as it would probably on other reality shows such as on Dancing on Ice, Big Brother or even I'm a Celeb but I've given up watching I'm a Celebrity.

You are very much entitled to your own view. I don't agree... However, I really don't agree with some of the comments Mock has made and I'm truly surprised at him. He is usually so nice and respects everyone. Not in this case though. Disability is strange, it could strike any one if us at any minute. I'd like to think people wouldn't want me to withdraw from the world if it happened to me.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

Nobody is taking away the fact that Chris's standard is impressive for a blind person, at least I hope nobody is anyway.

I do personally think though that Chris was starting to become one of the three worst dancers in the competition after Paul Merson got eliminated.

I agree


Chris did well with what he achieved,but he was still the weakest if we're talking technical dance ability.

Dianne is a great teacher ,and was amazing with Chris. And he put all his effort into it.And you could tell it meant alot to him

But I was rooting for JB,Sarah & Tasha as they were the best dancers . And I would have been happy if any of these 3 won. Apparently the bookies knew Chris had it in the bag aswell....as he was way ahead of everyone in the odds.

Also I never actually realised Tasha had a hearing impairment , until I saw a comment about her implant falling out...in one of the dances . Hearing disabilities are usually treated differently to blindness aswell. I'm not saying people don't sympathise with people like Tasha or even Rose ( who actually won her year) , but blindness will always carry more when it comes to disabilities...not to sound strange.

But I find it interesting how attitudes are around deafness compared to blindness, people take for granted or assume every deaf person or partially hearing person can for e.g ' lip read ' & 'sign ' , but that isn't the case . Or they just assume they'll pick things up through the feel of the rhythm / beat of dancing ( which yes is true to a point) ...but they may still find things harder to learn .

I'm probably going off on a tangent a bit ....but I saw a Waterloo road clip ,where a kid was completely deaf ...and the teachers didn't really have a clue how to make teaching accessible to him .

I thought it was very eye opening
seeing how there's a lack of training & understanding regarding deaf people ,even the lady signing/ translating for him... was still on Basic BSL , she wasn't even on the advanced level . So the boy struggled to find it coherent.

Whereas with a blind person , it's more obvious to people ...ok they know the person will need a guide or a dog etc to get around their day to day activities. You can still communicate with them with your voice or find ways etc.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Baileysguzzla

I am so so so over the moon Chris and Dianne won. Yes he wasn't the strongest dancer, probably the weakest of the 4. However as was the overall theme of the final, that partnership between Chris and Dianne was one of the most beautiful partnerships I have ever had the pleasure of witnessing on strictly come dancing. I'm firstly over the moon that finally Dianne has managed to lift a Glitterball, but Chris wow, it isn't a sympathy vote as members on here are saying, as I feel no sympathy for him, there's no reason to feel sorry for him and he doesn't feel sorry for himself, he's an exceptional man, that absolutely defied my early expectations of him, and they absolutely deserved it

But huge congratulations to the other finalists who were all absolutely brilliant and delivered my most favourite final of all time. Thank you

Great post and I agree with every word you said…

Just watched the final and I sobbed through most of it. Very emotional and I loved every one of the finalists but always knew Chris would win…what an amazing achievement and a remarkable man.
My favourite to watch this year was Tasha…so stunning and so graceful. The guy from JLS made the most improvement and I loved watching him dance especially over the last 3 weeks….as for Sarah she too has been awesome.

Great show…loved every minute.

[Nicky91]

wonder who the older duffer for Dianne will be then next year

[Nicky91]

think we'll have more celeb women next year again


and i reckon Nadiya is back on the bench



think Michelle will get another partner, after a decent debut partnership


Amy will take one year off i think, giving Lauren a full series


Karen could either have her ''last hurrah'' with a big name or leave