[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by AnnieKristmas

I knew Chris would win, I wanted Sarah but also thought JB would have been worthy.

However, I just don't think you can take away Chris' achievement. For a blind person who has never seen the steps he was asked to perform so has no point of reference on how they should be done other that being shown through feel and word, his achievement was nothing short of outstanding.

If all the other dancers closed their eyes to learn the dances, they would still be at an advantage as they have seen the steps performed before.

I think saying it's a sympathy vote is a pretty basic response....possibly admiration at his tenacity and determination...but I don't know one person who has expressed sympathy towards Chris.

And....he danced better than a lot of the sighted contestants. Particularly in ballroom

Nobody is taking away the fact that Chris's standard is impressive for a blind person, at least I hope nobody is anyway.

I do personally think though that Chris was starting to become one of the three worst dancers in the competition after Paul Merson got eliminated.

[Candy Annie Cane]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

Nobody is taking away the fact that Chris's standard is impressive for a blind person, at least I hope nobody is anyway.

I do personally think though that Chris was starting to become one of the three worst dancers in the competition after Paul Merson got eliminated.

You say you're not taking anything away from him but you have suggested that disabled contestants should be banned from participating?? In a world where they are already highly disadvantaged and at times discriminated against, you want them further discriminated in case the public see just how much harder it is for them to attain a level that their able bodied counterparts do? WOW.

I get that you were pissed off Sam was eliminated probably before she should have been....but it's pretty low to suggest that not being able bodied means they shouldn't be allowed to take part

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by AnnieKristmas

You say you're not taking anything away from him but you have suggested that disabled contestants should be banned from participating?? In a world where they are already highly disadvantaged and at times discriminated against, you want them further discriminated in case the public see just how much harder it is for them to attain a level that their able bodied counterparts do? WOW.

I get that you were pissed off Sam was eliminated probably before she should have been....but it's pretty low to suggest that not being able bodied means they shouldn't be allowed to take part

I meant that I'm not taking the quality of dances that he achieved away from him, which were impressive for a blind person to achieve, I am not going to slam Chris just for the sake of it.

But I stand by my opinion that if the competition is going to keep being destroyed by a contingent of the fandom constantly trying to push disabled contestants towards the top 5 every single year nowadays, then yes there does need to be rules amended about their participation in the competition.

And I have warned Liam about this when he accused me of being "Misogynistic" about Ali during the last BB, I don't appreciate being accused of discriminating against contestants because I have certain issues with them on the program.

Sam has nothing to do with this as she was never going to win, my main issues would be with JB, Tasha, Montell, and Shayne if that were the case, considering they were all less popular than Sam with the public at the time.

My issue with disabled contestants on Strictly (not just Chris) is that they're guaranteed to get to the second half of the competition, just because they're disabled.

I mean when has disabled person ever gone in the first three rounds of voting?

[Candy Annie Cane]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

I meant that I'm not taking the quality of dances that he achieved away from him, which were impressive for a blind person to achieve, I am not going to slam Chris just for the sake of it.

But I stand by my opinion that if the competition is going to keep being destroyed by a contingent of the fandom constantly trying to push disabled contestants towards the top 5 every single year nowadays, then yes there does need to be rules amended about their participation in the competition.

And I have warned Liam about this when he accused me of being "Misogynistic" about Ali during the last BB, I don't appreciate being accused of discriminating against contestants because I have certain issues with them on the program.

Sam has nothing to do with this as she was never going to win, my main issues would be with JB, Tasha, Montell, and Shayne if that were the case, considering they were all less popular than Sam with the public at the time.

My issue with disabled contestants on Strictly (not just Chris) is that they're guaranteed to get to the second half of the competition, just because they're disabled.

I mean when has disabled person ever gone in the first three rounds of voting?

You absolutely are discriminating against them by saying they should be banned though

Can you imagine saying any other demographic should be banned?

It's an entertainment show....Chris entertained millions each week.

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by AnnieKristmas

You absolutely are discriminating against them by saying they should be banned though

Can you imagine saying any other demographic should be banned?

It's an entertainment show....Chris entertained millions each week.

I said it should be up for discussion if for whatever reason the spin-off idea is out of the question.

And if the Show can't treat them like actual Human Beings by treating them equally, then yes a ban would need to be up for consideration by that point

Because what would be your solution to the fact that the disabled contestants are guaranteed to be get past the first three rounds of the competition?

[Candy Annie Cane]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

I said it should be up for discussion if for whatever reason the spin-off idea is out of the question.

And if the Show can't treat them like actual Human Beings by treating them equally, then yes a ban would need to be up for consideration by that point

Because what would be your solution to the fact that the disabled contestants are guaranteed to be get past the first three rounds of the competition?

My solution is to leave it as it is. Those with disabilities have as much right on an entertainment show as anyone else. With the **** going on in the world, the last thing I'm going to get bent out of shape about is a famous person not getting through to the next round of what is, essentially, a vanity project because the British public recognised that it's pretty hard to dance with a disability and they might chuck a vote or two at someone facing adversity

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by AnnieKristmas

My solution is to leave it as it is. Those with disabilities have as much right on an entertainment show as anyone else. With the **** going on in the world, the last thing I'm going to get bent out of shape about is a famous person not getting through to the next round of what is, essentially, a vanity project because the British public recognised that it's pretty hard to dance with a disability and they might chuck a vote or two at someone facing adversity

I understand what you're saying tbf.

I personally do think that something has to be done about how this year exactly played out though.

The Show was even keeping contestants in that couldn't compete in the vote, which is a huge problem for the Show.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

Nobody is taking away the fact that Chris's standard is impressive for a blind person, at least I hope nobody is anyway.

I do personally think though that Chris was starting to become one of the three worst dancers in the competition after Paul Merson got eliminated.

I get totally where you're coming from.
I know you mean nothing nasty re Chris.

As I said earlier I know people who were ONLY voting for Chris because he was blind.

Furthermore, and never wanting to be impressed with the current judging panel there is.
The announcement at the start of the show was the judges votes in the final were only for guidance.
Well they had him last of the 4 finalists all through.

Personally I think particularly his first dance was far weaker than the other 3 finalists
The final was great from all 4 finalists.
However again as I said before, you have said from virtually week 3, that he would win.
You were right.
Plus it is in my view in a big part because he was blind.

I loved the final but it's either about dancing or it's not.
I guess now it's not.
Maybe it's never really been so.
It's not really a good show if it's only going to be filled with just more supporting acts for one other who has special circumstances.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I get totally where you're coming from.
I know you mean nothing nasty re Chris.

As I said earlier I know people who were ONLY voting for Chris because he was blind.

Furthermore, and never wanting to be impressed with the current judging panel there is.
The announcement at the start of the show was the judges votes in the final were only for guidance.
Well they had him last of the 4 finalists all through.

Personally I think particularly his first dance was far weaker than the other 3 finalists
The final was great from all 4 finalists.
However again as I said before, you have said from virtually week 3, that he would win.
You were right.
Plus it is in my view in a big part because he was blind.

I loved the final but it's either about dancing or it's not.
I guess now it's not.
Maybe it's never really been so.
It's not really a good show if it's only going to be filled with just more supporting acts for one other who has special circumstances.

Some people only vote for someone because they're pretty. Mock liked Sam who definitely wasn't the best dancer by any means. People like who they like. If you're looking for fair judging, maybe follow the national and world championships. If you want to see non-dancers go on a journey and improve every week, and one which us open to a public vote it's Strictly. Had the judges been called on alone to mark it, they'd have chosen Tasha, the beautiful girl with previous dance training which is unfair in itself.

I really am shocked at the response if some people to Chris's win... People I never would have expect to have reacted this way.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Some people only vote for someone because they're pretty. Mock liked Sam who definitely wasn't the best dancer by any means. People like who they like. If you're looking for fair judging, maybe follow the national and world championships. If you want to see non-dancers go on a journey and improve every week, and one which us open to a public vote it's Strictly. Had the judges been called on alone to mark it, they'd have chosen Tasha, the beautiful girl with previous dance training which is unfair in itself.

I really am shocked at the response if some people to Chris's win... People I never would have expect to have reacted this way.

Well apologies for my having a view.
However I'll respect yours while still holding onto my own.

I don't really think anyone is being anti disabled at all.
I'm certainly not.
That's an outrageous claim to make, in my view..

I've said the final was great by all 4 finalists however the win dampened my own personal enjoyment of this series.
Just as it would probably on other reality shows such as on Dancing on Ice, Big Brother or even I'm a Celeb but I've given up watching I'm a Celebrity.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well apologies for my having a view.
However I'll respect yours while still holding onto my own.

I don't really think anyone is being anti disabled at all.
I'm certainly not.
That's an outrageous claim to make, in my view..

I've said the final was great by all 4 finalists however the win dampened my own personal enjoyment of this series.
Just as it would probably on other reality shows such as on Dancing on Ice, Big Brother or even I'm a Celeb but I've given up watching I'm a Celebrity.

You are very much entitled to your own view. I don't agree... However, I really don't agree with some of the comments Mock has made and I'm truly surprised at him. He is usually so nice and respects everyone. Not in this case though. Disability is strange, it could strike any one if us at any minute. I'd like to think people wouldn't want me to withdraw from the world if it happened to me.

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by Livia

You are very much entitled to your own view. I don't agree... However, I really don't agree with some of the comments Mock has made and I'm truly surprised at him. He is usually so nice and respects everyone. Not in this case though. Disability is strange, it could strike any one if us at any minute. I'd like to think people wouldn't want me to withdraw from the world if it happened to me.

I never said anything about Chris or disabled people should withdraw from the world, I just say things in a blunt way which I know can offend people sometimes, even if it's not my intention.

Speaking for myself, I would not want to win any competition just because of the "feel good factor" as I would see it as deeply patronizing personally.

But that's just me.

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by Livia

Some people only vote for someone because they're pretty. Mock liked Sam who definitely wasn't the best dancer by any means. People like who they like. If you're looking for fair judging, maybe follow the national and world championships. If you want to see non-dancers go on a journey and improve every week, and one which us open to a public vote it's Strictly. Had the judges been called on alone to mark it, they'd have chosen Tasha, the beautiful girl with previous dance training which is unfair in itself.

I really am shocked at the response if some people to Chris's win... People I never would have expect to have reacted this way.

I agree that it's not always about who's the best dancer should win, as I also liked Jamie and Pete who weren't the best dancers either, especially Pete

I just personally think that the Show every single year nearly in recent times trying to push "feel good" messages on the audience is irritating to me, and that's away from any disability stuff.

For me I shouldn't be able to call that Chris would win the Show just from a Newspaper headline telling me that he was going to be participating on the Show, and the main reason why he would win.

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

Nobody is taking away the fact that Chris's standard is impressive for a blind person, at least I hope nobody is anyway.

I do personally think though that Chris was starting to become one of the three worst dancers in the competition after Paul Merson got eliminated.

I agree


Chris did well with what he achieved,but he was still the weakest if we're talking technical dance ability.

Dianne is a great teacher ,and was amazing with Chris. And he put all his effort into it.And you could tell it meant alot to him

But I was rooting for JB,Sarah & Tasha as they were the best dancers . And I would have been happy if any of these 3 won. Apparently the bookies knew Chris had it in the bag aswell....as he was way ahead of everyone in the odds.

Also I never actually realised Tasha had a hearing impairment , until I saw a comment about her implant falling out...in one of the dances . Hearing disabilities are usually treated differently to blindness aswell. I'm not saying people don't sympathise with people like Tasha or even Rose ( who actually won her year) , but blindness will always carry more when it comes to disabilities...not to sound strange.

But I find it interesting how attitudes are around deafness compared to blindness, people take for granted or assume every deaf person or partially hearing person can for e.g ' lip read ' & 'sign ' , but that isn't the case . Or they just assume they'll pick things up through the feel of the rhythm / beat of dancing ( which yes is true to a point) ...but they may still find things harder to learn .

I'm probably going off on a tangent a bit ....but I saw a Waterloo road clip ,where a kid was completely deaf ...and the teachers didn't really have a clue how to make teaching accessible to him .

I thought it was very eye opening
seeing how there's a lack of training & understanding regarding deaf people ,even the lady signing/ translating for him... was still on Basic BSL , she wasn't even on the advanced level . So the boy struggled to find it coherent.

Whereas with a blind person , it's more obvious to people ...ok they know the person will need a guide or a dog etc to get around their day to day activities. You can still communicate with them with your voice or find ways etc.