[jet]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

My main thing that I'm not happy about with Chris's win is that he won for reasons that were away from genuine fan popularity or dancing quality, he won because of his disability which ruined the Show right from the start, as there were loads of the audience that were going to vote for him regardless of anything that he said or his performances.

And anyone that had a remote chance at gaining support as the numbers got lower were removed before they were given that chance.

Imo as Rose and Chris (and a myriad of other disabled contestants have shown over the years on Strictly) there needs to be one of three solutions offered to the table imo.

1. The BBC creates a spin-off dancing contest for disabled contestants, so they're all competing on an equal turf to each other, thus no advantages in the vote towards one disabled contestant amongst non-disabled contestants.

2. The judges and the public learn to treat the disabled contestants the same as every other contestant on the Show, something that after all of these years still hasn't been mastered by either group.

Or 3. If the first two can't be achieved then the disabled contestants need to be banned from taking part on the Show, because it is meant to be an equal competition for every contestant to have a shot at winning the Show, and it's been clear to see this year that it was certainly not equal for someone like Shayne or Wynne to compete with Chris in the public vote, regardless of how they came across or danced.

How do you feel then about those who have had a lot/some/no dance training whatsoever competing in the same contest? Tasha had a LOT of dance experience, JB had quite a lot, I don’t know about Sarah but we know Chris had absolutely none. The participants on Strictly have never been competing on an ‘equal turf’.
Given that, do you think there should be different shows for those with dance training and those with none at all?

I’m in absolute awe at how he managed to dance without getting his feet entangled with Diane’s; his footwork and positioning were exceptional, as the judges pointed out and marked accordingly.
How Diane taught him all the different moves and how he carried them out so well is astounding. I just don’t know how they did it!
I’d agree with you if he was crap and getting low marks every week, but far from it.
A remarkable achievement and an absolutely worthy winner!

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by The Grinch

The first one wouldn’t work. All disabilities are different. I mean the Paralympics has different levels and different leagues for disabled people such as sight, missing limps etc so that would just not work at all.


Chris was a great winner, not just for his disability but also his dancing wasn’t bad, he scored in the 30s, that’s great. It’s not like he was getting 18, 19 etc. I did want Sarah to win mind, however, I’m not angry he won at all

The disabled show would mainly be for the deaf and blind communities, that would be my vision for it anyway.

The really severe disabilities probably wouldn't be allowed on the Show in the first place I would guess.

And the judges are a joke nowadays, especially towards the end of the Show as every contestant starts scoring mid to high 30's.

If the judges were being more honest, Chris would've been in the teens with his attempt at the Paso for example, it was the worst attempt at the Paso in the entire season imo.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by AnnieKristmas

You say you're not taking anything away from him but you have suggested that disabled contestants should be banned from participating?? In a world where they are already highly disadvantaged and at times discriminated against, you want them further discriminated in case the public see just how much harder it is for them to attain a level that their able bodied counterparts do? WOW.

I get that you were pissed off Sam was eliminated probably before she should have been....but it's pretty low to suggest that not being able bodied means they shouldn't be allowed to take part

I meant that I'm not taking the quality of dances that he achieved away from him, which were impressive for a blind person to achieve, I am not going to slam Chris just for the sake of it.

But I stand by my opinion that if the competition is going to keep being destroyed by a contingent of the fandom constantly trying to push disabled contestants towards the top 5 every single year nowadays, then yes there does need to be rules amended about their participation in the competition.

And I have warned Liam about this when he accused me of being "Misogynistic" about Ali during the last BB, I don't appreciate being accused of discriminating against contestants because I have certain issues with them on the program.

Sam has nothing to do with this as she was never going to win, my main issues would be with JB, Tasha, Montell, and Shayne if that were the case, considering they were all less popular than Sam with the public at the time.

My issue with disabled contestants on Strictly (not just Chris) is that they're guaranteed to get to the second half of the competition, just because they're disabled.

I mean when has disabled person ever gone in the first three rounds of voting?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Livia

Some people only vote for someone because they're pretty. Mock liked Sam who definitely wasn't the best dancer by any means. People like who they like. If you're looking for fair judging, maybe follow the national and world championships. If you want to see non-dancers go on a journey and improve every week, and one which us open to a public vote it's Strictly. Had the judges been called on alone to mark it, they'd have chosen Tasha, the beautiful girl with previous dance training which is unfair in itself.

I really am shocked at the response if some people to Chris's win... People I never would have expect to have reacted this way.

I agree that it's not always about who's the best dancer should win, as I also liked Jamie and Pete who weren't the best dancers either, especially Pete

I just personally think that the Show every single year nearly in recent times trying to push "feel good" messages on the audience is irritating to me, and that's away from any disability stuff.

For me I shouldn't be able to call that Chris would win the Show just from a Newspaper headline telling me that he was going to be participating on the Show, and the main reason why he would win.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Livia

You are very much entitled to your own view. I don't agree... However, I really don't agree with some of the comments Mock has made and I'm truly surprised at him. He is usually so nice and respects everyone. Not in this case though. Disability is strange, it could strike any one if us at any minute. I'd like to think people wouldn't want me to withdraw from the world if it happened to me.

I never said anything about Chris or disabled people should withdraw from the world, I just say things in a blunt way which I know can offend people sometimes, even if it's not my intention.

Speaking for myself, I would not want to win any competition just because of the "feel good factor" as I would see it as deeply patronizing personally.

But that's just me.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by jet

How do you feel then about those who have had a lot/some/no dance training whatsoever competing in the same contest? Tasha had a LOT of dance experience, JB had quite a lot, I don’t know about Sarah but we know Chris had absolutely none. The participants on Strictly have never been competing on an ‘equal turf’.
Given that, do you think there should be different shows for those with dance training and those with none at all?

I’m in absolute awe at how he managed to dance without getting his feet entangled with Diane’s; his footwork and positioning were exceptional, as the judges pointed out and marked accordingly.
How Diane taught him all the different moves and how he carried them out so well is astounding. I just don’t know how they did it!
I’d agree with you if he was crap and getting low marks every week, but far from it.
A remarkable achievement and an absolutely worthy winner!

The ringers don't have an advantage in the public vote, which is where my complaint lies.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

I meant that I'm not taking the quality of dances that he achieved away from him, which were impressive for a blind person to achieve, I am not going to slam Chris just for the sake of it.

But I stand by my opinion that if the competition is going to keep being destroyed by a contingent of the fandom constantly trying to push disabled contestants towards the top 5 every single year nowadays, then yes there does need to be rules amended about their participation in the competition.

And I have warned Liam about this when he accused me of being "Misogynistic" about Ali during the last BB, I don't appreciate being accused of discriminating against contestants because I have certain issues with them on the program.

Sam has nothing to do with this as she was never going to win, my main issues would be with JB, Tasha, Montell, and Shayne if that were the case, considering they were all less popular than Sam with the public at the time.

My issue with disabled contestants on Strictly (not just Chris) is that they're guaranteed to get to the second half of the competition, just because they're disabled.

I mean when has disabled person ever gone in the first three rounds of voting?

You absolutely are discriminating against them by saying they should be banned though

Can you imagine saying any other demographic should be banned?

It's an entertainment show....Chris entertained millions each week.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by AnnieKristmas

You absolutely are discriminating against them by saying they should be banned though

Can you imagine saying any other demographic should be banned?

It's an entertainment show....Chris entertained millions each week.

I said it should be up for discussion if for whatever reason the spin-off idea is out of the question.

And if the Show can't treat them like actual Human Beings by treating them equally, then yes a ban would need to be up for consideration by that point

Because what would be your solution to the fact that the disabled contestants are guaranteed to be get past the first three rounds of the competition?

[Mystic Mock]

And what other group is getting treated with kiddie gloves every single year? Because I would have the discussion about them too.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

I said it should be up for discussion if for whatever reason the spin-off idea is out of the question.

And if the Show can't treat them like actual Human Beings by treating them equally, then yes a ban would need to be up for consideration by that point

Because what would be your solution to the fact that the disabled contestants are guaranteed to be get past the first three rounds of the competition?

My solution is to leave it as it is. Those with disabilities have as much right on an entertainment show as anyone else. With the **** going on in the world, the last thing I'm going to get bent out of shape about is a famous person not getting through to the next round of what is, essentially, a vanity project because the British public recognised that it's pretty hard to dance with a disability and they might chuck a vote or two at someone facing adversity

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by AnnieKristmas

My solution is to leave it as it is. Those with disabilities have as much right on an entertainment show as anyone else. With the **** going on in the world, the last thing I'm going to get bent out of shape about is a famous person not getting through to the next round of what is, essentially, a vanity project because the British public recognised that it's pretty hard to dance with a disability and they might chuck a vote or two at someone facing adversity

I understand what you're saying tbf.

I personally do think that something has to be done about how this year exactly played out though.

The Show was even keeping contestants in that couldn't compete in the vote, which is a huge problem for the Show.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

And what other group is getting treated with kiddie gloves every single year? Because I would have the discussion about them too.

Being included is not "being treated with kiddie gloves".

Honestly Mock, I'm really surprised at your stance in this.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Livia

Being included is not "being treated with kiddie gloves".

Honestly Mock, I'm really surprised at your stance in this.

I never said that him being included is him being treated with kiddie gloves?

My belief is that the judges were giving Chris bonus points because of his disability, which I personally do think is patronizing and is treating him with kiddie gloves.

That's just my opinion on the topic.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

I never said that him being included is him being treated with kiddie gloves?

My belief is that the judges were giving Chris bonus points because of his disability, which I personally do think is patronizing and is treating him with kiddie gloves.

That's just my opinion on the topic.

I didn't see any unfair voting. His footwork was right, his frame was right, his timing was immaculate, he rarely went wrong... Kid gloves didn't come into it. But hey... Your opinion is your opinion and you're entitled to it. Even if it's wrong.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Livia

I didn't see any unfair voting. His footwork was right, his frame was right, his timing was immaculate, he rarely went wrong... Kid gloves didn't come into it. But hey... Your opinion is your opinion and you're entitled to it. Even if it's wrong.

Chris by the final was being scored similar to the other three.

That is highly questionable imo.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

The ringers don't have an advantage in the public vote, which is where my complaint lies.

I'm not getting what you mean here Mock. Could you exlpain further?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by jet

I'm not getting what you mean here Mock. Could you exlpain further?

The ringers tend to do poorly in the public votes on average, so if anything they're disadvantaged in the competition where it counts.

Where as goodlooking contestants that aren't ringers, and disabled contestants (regardless of any other popular characteristics that they might have) will do well in the public vote, regardless of their performances.

To mention Sam this year for example (because Livia did mention her earlier) she clearly had a nice bump in her vote due to her looks, but was also seen as relatable because she clearly didn't have dancing experience prior to the Show.

And obviously disabled contestants do get pushed towards the top 6 fairly often.

[Mystic Mock]

Another workaround idea that I think that the BBC could consider, see what you guys think.

The Show imo should consider casting at a minimum four disabled contestants a year.

The reason that I say this is that it stops one or two of the disabled contestants being treated differently to everyone else in the competition (because there would be a few of them on the Show) and it means that the public have a choice between a few of them rather than just one or two.

And it does mean that the public will be more likely to treat them more equally, because it wouldn't be one individual standing out for those reasons, it would mean that the public would be expecting some standards from the contestants again.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

Chris by the final was being scored similar to the other three.

That is highly questionable imo.

Why? What did you find wrong in his footwork, his positioning, the lifts, his frame? They were all excellent.

He obviously couldn't perform really tricky moves like some of the others did which are exciting and impressive to look at but don't add anything to the score board marks.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Santa Goth

The ringers tend to do poorly in the public votes on average, so if anything they're disadvantaged in the competition where it counts.

Not usually a disadvantage ……These past winners all had a lot of or some previous dance experience.

Alesha Dixon
Kara Tointon
Tom Chambers
Abbey Clancy
Caroline Flack
Jay McGuiness
Kelvin Fletcher
Bill Bailey
Jill Halfpenny
Jay McGuiness


I'm not sure if the average casual viewer even thinks about/knows who has previous dance experience and who hasn't, they likely just consider how well they are progressing from week 1 onwards and base their opinions on that.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by jet

Why? What did you find wrong in his footwork, his positioning, the lifts, his frame? They were all excellent.

He obviously couldn't perform really tricky moves like some of the others did which are exciting and impressive to look at but don't add anything to the score board marks.

Chris is not at the same level as the other three imo, it's not that he was bad per say, it's more just that the other three were better dancers on a technical level.

Being fair to Chris, I would say that his dance level was clearly above people such as Paul, Toyah, Nick, and Pete, I'm not certain with him and Tom due to Tom not really lasting long enough to judge how he was progressing.

I would argue that Chris and Wynne were 50-50 depending on the night, and everyone else I would argue were better than him, in some cases it was probably to do with their age as well as being able to visually see the routines tbf.

For example Tasha is over 20 years younger than Chris, so it will show itself in the dancing, regardless of if she were trained or not, or his disability.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by jet

Not usually a disadvantage ……These past winners all had a lot of or some previous dance experience.

Alesha Dixon
Kara Tointon
Tom Chambers
Abbey Clancy
Caroline Flack
Jay McGuiness
Kelvin Fletcher
Bill Bailey

I'm not sure if the average casual viewer even thinks about/knows who has previous dance experience and who hasn't, they likely just consider how well they are progressing from week 1 onwards and base their opinions on that.

You've named 8 winners after 21-22 series of the Show, that's not that many really considering how many ringers have been on the Show over the years that have had dire voting that always ends up getting exposed by the end of the Show.

I mean just this series alone we've had Tasha and JB do bad in most of the votes, but the leaderboard kept shielding them.

Leyton last year didn't exactly have one of the big fanbases.

Fleur East and Molly in Hamza's year both had dire public support.

Alexandra Burke, Debbie McGhee, and Aston.

Didn't Rachel Stevens from S Club 7 also have issues in the voting in her year?

Karim in the year Kelvin won, had issues in his vote.

That's just 10 of them off the top of my head, there's probably more.

[Mystic Mock]

I just want to apologize to everyone on here with my "disabled contestants should possibly be banned" comments as it is a stupid comment for me to have made for a number of reasons.

I also have two members (that I won't name on here) that I want to apologize to, as I probably went more hostile towards them than I should have over a Celebrity dancing Show.

I do still have my issues with Chris's win (that won't change) but I could've definitely expressed that opinion a lot better.

I hope that I haven't burned any bridges with anyone on here.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by jet

Not usually a disadvantage ……These past winners all had a lot of or some previous dance experience.

Alesha Dixon
Kara Tointon
Tom Chambers
Abbey Clancy
Caroline Flack
Jay McGuiness
Kelvin Fletcher
Bill Bailey

I'm not sure if the average casual viewer even thinks about/knows who has previous dance experience and who hasn't, they likely just consider how well they are progressing from week 1 onwards and base their opinions on that.

as far as i know, Abbey, Kelvin, Bill didn't have past dance experience though?

the one thing that worked in Bill's advantage, was besides being a comedian, he also is a musician, that and the fact it was a covid pandemic reduced series


Kelvin is a natural i think, which came across more impressive since he was a late entrant (instead of Jamie Laing who was injured after the launch show group number)


Abbey was kinda mediocre early weeks but gradually turned into a dancer all thanks to Aljaz's brilliant teaching skills as well as after the halloween week shock dance off appearance ignited her fire to improve more and more




you forgot Jill Halfpenny, an actual ringer who went on to win

[Nicky91]

german version might have a disabled star too in 2025


Kristina Vogel, former olympic road cyclist, whom had a car accident recently which left her paralysed from the waist, now wheelchair bound


strictly also had a wheelchair disabled contestant too in a special, Hannah Cockroft, she danced with Pasha if i remember correctly