[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I can't help but think if more Dads were willing to stick around things might not be as bad, the simple fact is people need to stop thinking the state is going to give them more than a basic standard of living, if you need more you need to do it yourself ...as a positive she is in a one bed flat, it could be much worse she could be in a hotel room, she says the bedroom is full, with the kids sleeping on matresses on the floor, a bunk bed might solve the issue while they are all small, and get herself a decent sofa bed....she could make it work half the junk in that room could be sold off, you dont need to have a slide in your house for instance ...

The state doesn't give people more than a basic standard of living. And it absolutely is the state's job to ensure that the economy functions in a way that allows families to be able to exist with a reasonable standard of living. That and defense are literally the state's only two purposes.

Also the idea that everyone can have a bigger slice of pie if they work harder is obviously not true; it's just not how economies work. More work as a collective doesn't = more pie to go around. There is only so much pie. If you work hard you might get more of the pie. Ideally that will come from a wealthier person's slice and not the last crust of some other poor soul's... but it certainly doesn't mean "more pie for everyone". It's a myth. It SHOULD work, because the people with most of the pie SHOULDN'T be able to hoard all of the pie for themselves - but they do.

Like I said in principle I don't disagree that every family should be in a position to afford kids before they have kids, but the reality of that in most of the western world's current situation is a drastic reduction in birth rates and (very quickly) economic collapse. Why do you think the states are banning abortion? It's not because Jesus says abortion is bad, it's because they desperately want to avoid population decline. They don't want it to be that people who can't reasonably continue an unplanned pregnancy due to affordability can easily make that choice. Because year on year more and more people would have to say "Can't afford it". Housing is too expensive. Utilities are too expensive. Food is too expensive. Couples can't "afford kids independently" until they're pushing 40 by which point many either physically cannot, or are settled in life and choose not to.

Class sizes of incoming primary schools in many areas are already at record lows.

just have a peek at SK and you will see the effect of young people choosing not to have kids. They're at the point of offering up massive cash incentives.