[Ammi]

Originally Posted by BBXX

You are right. It is, yes.

I honestly don't really think here in the UK people are so politically divided to such a mainstream extent. There are extremes of both sides, but the large majority seem to fit somewhere in the middle and get along regardless.

I think the U.S it's just far more polarising.

…(…I think…)…that in the Uk and Ireland also, partnerships vote more independently throughout that partnership so when a separation/division happens…there is probably no significant change…whereas in some parts of America, maybe a different dynamic that impacts voting patterns…

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's a very American thing though isn't it? Republican/democrat?

Not sure most people here in Ireland anyway even identify themselves politically like that.

Good on the Irish I think.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…(…I think…)…that in the Uk and Ireland also, partnerships vote more independently throughout that partnership so when a separation/division happens…there is probably no significant change…whereas in some parts of America, maybe a different dynamic that impacts voting patterns…

Yeah Absolutely. It's definitely less of a .......way of life? I've said it before but really our 2 main Political parties in Ireland may as well be the same tbh I think for the most part people (and this is probably true of the UK as well) just want to get on with their own lives and worry about their own day to day things

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah Absolutely. It's definitely less of a .......way of life? I've said it before but really our 2 main Political parties in Ireland may as well be the same tbh I think for the most part people (and this is probably true of the UK as well) just want to get on with their own lives and worry about their own day to day things

…yeah it is true of the UK also, same party different name is becoming more what we’re living…it feels like a political game of career/income elevation….I personally can’t recall ever asking my OH how he was voting in any election, or he asking me…?…but US is such a huge beast in comparison, I imagine that many different dynamics can be part of it…

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…yeah it is true of the UK also, same party different name is becoming more what we’re living…it feels like a political game of career/income elevation….I personally can’t recall ever asking my OH how he was voting in any election, or he asking me…?…but US is such a huge beast in comparison, I imagine that many different dynamics can be part of it…

We talk about it, sometimes we vote the same, sometimes we don't, it's never an issue though.

[Ammi]

…I guess what I mean as well is that a divorced woman, for instance…?…if previously voted for Republic because that was very much influenced and led by a spouse…post divorce, could then apply a Democrat vote which may be more in line with a woman’s rights to her body etc and a mindset that aligns more with who she is…?..but that wouldn’t necessarily follow either because some political views in some states can be passed down through generations as well and very deeply instilled…US politics and politics that we know is so different in so many ways…

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…I guess what I mean as well is that a divorced woman, for instance…?…if previously voted for Republic because that was very much influenced and led by a spouse…post divorce, could then apply a Democrat vote which may be more in line with a woman’s rights to her body etc and a mindset that aligns more with who she is…?..but that wouldn’t necessarily follow either because some political views in some states can be passed down through generations as well and very deeply instilled…US politics and politics that we know is so different in so many ways…

Yeah maybe so, it does seem incredibly polarised and tribal over there

[Alf]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Why would ANY woman choose a republican man whose political beliefs show he doesn’t value her health or safety or independence.

Just a reminder it’s a MALE loneliness epidemic. Women are choosing more and more to stay single instead of getting in relationships with republican men who will end up treating them like an unpaid maid / their mummy, and won’t even know their children’s teachers name.

Men are told their purpose in life is to “leave a legacy” and make money, so when women are choosing to be single and the world is economically ****, a lot of men are ‘failing’ at the one thing they are told they should be achieving.

Men need women more than women need men. A lot of my guy friends - most of them will be centre right politically - got married and had kids because that’s what society told them was the purpose of life. Thats what men are supposed to do. They’re not particularly happy. Unfortunately, many men are so concerned with being seen as ‘successful’ by society they will make decisions that will ensure they are the paradigm of that, all the while being unhappy.

Women are smarter than men, and are more and more frequently making decisions that are beneficial for a happy and content life rather than what society is telling them they should be doing.

Unfortunately for many men, that life more and more often doesn’t include them if their values include banning abortion and that women should take on the mental load of an entire family while he plays golf.

I will say however I think this is shifting. I think younger men not influenced by Andrew Tate et al are really bucking the trend that have been set by older generations which is great to see.

There's far too much to reply to in that. Pretty much everything you say there is just so unbelievably wrong.

Where do you get this rubbish from?

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Alf

There's far too much to reply to in that. Pretty much everything you say there is just so unbelievably wrong.

Where do you get this rubbish from?

Let's break it down.

Why would ANY woman choose a republican man whose political beliefs show he doesn’t value her health or safety or independence.

When a vote for Republican is a vote for making abortion illegal, it's a vote against women's safety, their rights and their health.

Just a reminder it’s a MALE loneliness epidemic. Women are choosing more and more to stay single instead of getting in relationships with republican men who will end up treating them like an unpaid maid / their mummy, and won’t even know their children’s teachers name.

Stats are time and time again showing that women are staying single for longer. By 2030 it's estimated that 45% of women between 25-44 will be single. That's a stat continuing to increase. In the 2010s it was 43% and in the 70s it was 18%. For most, this is a choice. For the most part, it's Women who have the control over whether to ignite a relationship, by and large. For many women, if they are single it's because they are choosing to be so.

Men are told their purpose in life is to “leave a legacy” and make money, so when women are choosing to be single and the world is economically ****, a lot of men are ‘failing’ at the one thing they are told they should be achieving.

Studies have often suggested that more men (57%) than women (45%) want children. 21% of women now say they don't ever want child compared to 15% of men. This is because many men - particularly those with traditional values - believe marriage and procreating is the main purpose of life. I am not saying this is a bad thing, just that more men than women value the idea of it.

Men need women more than women need men. A lot of my guy friends - most of them will be centre right politically - got married and had kids because that’s what society told them was the purpose of life. Thats what men are supposed to do. They’re not particularly happy. Unfortunately, many men are so concerned with being seen as ‘successful’ by society they will make decisions that will ensure they are the paradigm of that, all the while being unhappy.

See above. More women don't want kids, more women are choosing to be single. Women are therefore putting less emphasis/important on companionship in the modern day. There is a reason for this. And it's because women are often dissatisfied with what many men bring to a relationship in terms of balance of responsibility. In the 70s, they had little choice and little freedom. Nowadays, that is not a problem. Hence why they're opting out for longer.

I don't know how many women you have in your friendship circle, but I have a lot and more and more are unsatisfied with the imbalance of their home life - something that becomes more and more prevalent when they have children. Most women will work, because not many households can afford to live off one wage - yet many also are expected to take on the majority of the tasks around the house as well - it's a common problem and it's not made up.

[Cherie]

I don't think it is just women opting out, I know alot of young men through my sons who have very little interest in having children, they don't want to bring kids into todays world, this is very much social media driven, I don't think we put too much thought into it tbh, it was just the think to do, the other thing they are shunning is working ....lots of young people just not working or in education, they just have a different slant on things, not necessarily a bad thing in some ways

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I don't think it is just women opting out, I know alot of young men through my sons who have very little interest in having children, they don't want to bring kids into todays world, this is very much social media driven, I don't think we put too much thought into it tbh, it was just the think to do, the other thing they are shunning is working ....lots of young people just not working or in education, they just have a different slant on things, not necessarily a bad thing in some ways

Great in theory but if an entire generation stops working there's going to be big problems in society

[bots]

there is a big shift away from doing things at the request of the countries governments. So, people in general, question whether whats happening will better them just because the government says it will. Social media has certainly helped the process, but governments handling of covid really brought everything home to people in stark reality. No government is trusted now, wherever you go in the world and that certainly wasn't true when i was a lad

[Livia]

What a thread full of wild generalisations and shaky stats.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's a very American thing though isn't it? Republican/democrat?

Not sure most people here in Ireland anyway even identify themselves politically like that.

It’s honestly the same for my generation over here. What you see on the internet is absolutely nothing like real life

Most people my age are completely in the middle ground with politics.

If there were a party that had mostly politically in the middle beliefs, it would 10000% be the majority vote

But our system here is very flawed and I hate that

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

It’s honestly the same for my generation over here. What you see on the internet is absolutely nothing like real life

Most people my age are completely in the middle ground with politics.

If there were a party that had mostly politically in the middle beliefs, it would 10000% be the majority vote

But our system here is very flawed and I hate that

That's interesting to hear, it's good though, what we see here online and in the media makes it seem so bad over there

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I don't think it is just women opting out, I know alot of young men through my sons who have very little interest in having children, they don't want to bring kids into todays world, this is very much social media driven, I don't think we put too much thought into it tbh, it was just the think to do, the other thing they are shunning is working ....lots of young people just not working or in education, they just have a different slant on things, not necessarily a bad thing in some ways

No, you're right it's not just women opting out, there is a definite shift in attitudes towards having children, which I for one welcome - I think far too many people had kids without giving actual proper thought about it and those choosing not to tend to give it way more thought and weight up the pros and cons.

However, the studies to do it's still more men than women want kids, and I think in part that's due to women not being satisfied with the disparity within the home.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Livia

What a thread full of wild generalisations and shaky stats.

Would love to get other stats/studies showing alternative opinions! Open to learning. I can just go by what stats tend to say and the rhetoric I hear from the men and women I speak to and read about.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

No, you're right it's not just women opting out, there is a definite shift in attitudes towards having children, which I for one welcome - I think far too many people had kids without giving actual proper thought about it and those choosing not to tend to give it way more thought and weight up the pros and cons.

However, the studies to do it's still more men than women want kids, and I think in part that's due to women not being satisfied with the disparity within the home.

Reminds me of when we had the referendum for abortion here in Ireland a few years back, the most vocal people on the against side that I came across personally were men and in particular men who I knew for a fact had been pretty uninvolved in the raising of their own children or didn't have any children. It was very much a stance of wanting babies to be born but obviously someone else(some woman) would have to look after them. - Anecdotal of course but it was my experience at the time

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

It’s honestly the same for my generation over here. What you see on the internet is absolutely nothing like real life

Most people my age are completely in the middle ground with politics.

If there were a party that had mostly politically in the middle beliefs, it would 10000% be the majority vote

But our system here is very flawed and I hate that

…yeah I have to say that I spend a lot of time on a few American forums that are general chat forums and much of their take anything US political is so much different to any vein on this site…which I think seems to be very media driven that has crossed a whole ocean and maybe much lost in translation…

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by BBXX

No, you're right it's not just women opting out, there is a definite shift in attitudes towards having children, which I for one welcome - I think far too many people had kids without giving actual proper thought about it and those choosing not to tend to give it way more thought and weight up the pros and cons.

However, the studies to do it's still more men than women want kids, and I think in part that's due to women not being satisfied with the disparity within the home.

…in having children in today’s world…?..I think that any shifts also have to look at the financial aspect…they’re extremely expensive little people and I think that’s a huge consideration because there are so many opportunities available for many young people but so much more restricted with the cost of having a family…

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Reminds me of when we had the referendum for abortion here in Ireland a few years back, the most vocal people on the against side that I came across personally were men and in particular men who I knew for a fact had been pretty uninvolved in the raising of their own children or didn't have any children. It was very much a stance of wanting babies to be born but obviously someone else(some woman) would have to look after them. - Anecdotal of course but it was my experience at the time

Indeed.

Of course the same doesn't apply to everyone and with what I've said further up, it comes with caveats and some generalisations of course, but a lot of generalisations are rooted in truth. I don't know of many women in my life who would say the unevenness of the mental load isn't something that gets to them.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…in having children in today’s world…?..I think that any shifts also have to look at the financial aspect…they’re extremely expensive little people and I think that’s a huge consideration because there are so many opportunities available for many young people but so much more restricted with the cost of having a family…

Absolutely, money has a lot to do with it too. There are many reasons, I am just saying I do think for women, knowing that the majority of the raising of a child, the graft and the real hard parts will fall to her if another.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Indeed.

Of course the same doesn't apply to everyone and with what I've said further up, it comes with caveats and some generalisations of course, but a lot of generalisations are rooted in truth. I don't know of many women in my life who would say the unevenness of the mental load isn't something that gets to them.

I do have to put my hand up here now though and say my own husband is and has always been great, children and home wise but yeah generally speaking I would say the majority of women feel an imbalance there

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Absolutely, money has a lot to do with it too. There are many reasons, I am just saying I do think for women, knowing that the majority of the raising of a child, the graft and the real hard parts will fall to her if another.

…yeah, it really does feel quite regressive that, that mindset is still so commonplace…obviously not with all, my son and his partner both share childcare absolutely equally and have both reduced their working hours to accommodate that …which is lovely because they both get their own bonding time with him as well as that which they all share together…that is also very much the way with many of his friendship groups also, that it’s very much a shared and equal arrangement …I do think though that it’s becoming less and less the ‘society roles’ of parenting of it falling to women, though…I see that in schools/in the playground drop offs/collections etc of the parent eho attends school events if only one parent is able to…I do think there is a shift thre as well which I hope doesn’t regress and continues as it appears to be, right now…

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I do have to put my hand up here now though and say my own husband is and has always been great, children and home wise but yeah generally speaking I would say the majority of women feel an imbalance there

…yes, I’m raising my hand as far up as I can and saying I’m rubbish cook for a start and there are so many things that the they’ve both gone to dad for…they do have specifics that they’ve always come to me for as well…we have definite roles which have always been equal in value in parenting…