[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

While I see trans men as men and trans women as women in societal terms and will defend their rights to use the spaces for the gender they identify as, I think we should take into consideration that it's somewhat disingenuous to say things like "men can get pregnant" when it's the female part of a trans man (the biological aspect) that is allowing them to do that.

I personally don't see why "pregnant women" needs to be changed to "pregnant people". Yes, trans men can get pregnant, but it's so rare that I don't think we need to undo what many millions of biological women have to go through by making it gender neutral.

I personally think that biological women go through a lot of biological strain that men don't have to deal with and by saying things like "men can get pregnant" and "men can have periods" and even "pregnant people" with the insinuation that could be a man, it's undermining that completely.

Away from that, I don't understand WHY a trans man would want to be do something that that is so intrinsic to the biological cycle of biological women and I would imagine most trans men would absolutely despise the idea, which makes this certain gender neutral language a bit pointless.

I also think it's counter productive - as mentioned, most trans men would HATE to get pregnant or menstruate or go through menopause, it would be extremely triggering for them, and so by insinuating they are able to, is highlighting their biological sex which they are trying desperately to disassociate from.

There is a place for gender neutral language for the sake of inclusivity, but I don't believe this is it and I think it does nobody any good.

Having said all that, I don't see the need to take glee from changing it as some kind of gotcha. It feels cheap.

That's just my personal belief on this.

I'd also be interested to know if any real number of trans men are even bothered by the term "pregnant women" anyway or is this whole thing (more likely imo) being pushed by activists who aren't even trans

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'd also be interested to know if any real number of trans men are even bothered by the term "pregnant women" anyway or is this whole thing (more likely imo) being pushed by activists who aren't even trans

I don't want to speak on behalf of trans people, but I honestly think it's a case of appreciating normalising gender neutral language rather than being bothered by the term "pregnant women".

As a gay man, I do understand how normalising gender neutral language can be super helpful - for instance if I am in a conversation with a client and I don't particularly feel safe outing myself, I will always refer to my husband as "my partner" instead of husband. I think this often potentially outs me anyway because married people tend not to say partner unless they are gay, but it is more common than it was, which for me can help in me keeping closeted if I feel it is appropriate.

So I understand that normalising GN language to draw less attention to the use of it, but personally in this instance, I just don't think it's appropriate or useful for the benefit for biological women or actually trans men.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I don't want to speak on behalf of trans people, but I honestly think it's a case of appreciating normalising gender neutral language rather than being bothered by the term "pregnant women".

As a gay man, I do understand how normalising gender neutral language can be super helpful - for instance if I am in a conversation with a client and I don't particularly feel safe outing myself, I will always refer to my husband as "my partner" instead of husband. I think this often potentially outs me anyway because married people tend not to say partner unless they are gay, but it is more common than it was, which for me can help in me keeping closeted if I feel it is appropriate.

So I understand that normalising GN language to draw less attention to the use of it, but personally in this instance, I just don't think it's appropriate or useful for the benefit for biological women or actually trans men.

I understand your view on that especially with the example you've given. I think (and I'm not putting you in this category because you do seem to understand where women are coming from in this particular case) some men don't really understand how important this actually is to women and tend to brush it off.

[Cherie]

I would imagine the percentage of transmen who would want to get pregnant is vanishingly small

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I would imagine the percentage of transmen who would want to get pregnant is vanishingly small

Indeed.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I don't want to speak on behalf of trans people, but I honestly think it's a case of appreciating normalising gender neutral language rather than being bothered by the term "pregnant women".

As a gay man, I do understand how normalising gender neutral language can be super helpful - for instance if I am in a conversation with a client and I don't particularly feel safe outing myself, I will always refer to my husband as "my partner" instead of husband. I think this often potentially outs me anyway because married people tend not to say partner unless they are gay, but it is more common than it was, which for me can help in me keeping closeted if I feel it is appropriate.

So I understand that normalising GN language to draw less attention to the use of it, but personally in this instance, I just don't think it's appropriate or useful for the benefit for biological women or actually trans men.

….its sad that in some schools…(…my primary school…)…that ‘partner’ wouldn’t be used if being introduced to the children…it would be ‘friend’…whereas any heterosexual member of staff can refer to their partner as husband/wife…

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

….its sad that in some schools…(…my primary school…)…that ‘partner’ wouldn’t be used if being introduced to the children…it would be ‘friend’…whereas any heterosexual member of staff can refer to their partner as husband/wife…

Still? That seems outrageous to me in a country where gay marriage is legal

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Still? That seems outrageous to me in a country where gay marriage is legal

…yes, still in many primary schools even though some children will have same sex parents themselves…

[Beso]

Don't tell me they have a "bring your partner to school day" in primary schools..

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Still? That seems outrageous to me in a country where gay marriage is legal

It's because some people equate same-sex relationships with sex, not love, in the way they think of straight relationships, and therefore think it's an inappropriate topic for children to know about.

Gross, but unfortunately true.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

It's because some people equate same-sex relationships with sex, not love, in the way they think of straight relationships, and therefore think it's an inappropriate topic for children to know about.

Gross, but unfortunately true.

It's not the children thinking like that though that's for sure, certainly not at primary school age

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's not the children thinking like that though that's for sure, certainly not at primary school age

No, absolutely, but adults have a habit of looking at the world through adult eyes and forget children don't see the world like that and just accept things at face value.

My niece and nephew have never ever questioned why I have a husband. To them it just is, as that's how it's always been. It doesn't need an explanation, whereas I've seen many a time adults say kids shouldn't learn about same-sex relationships until they're older to "understand". They are often projecting their own lack of understanding onto children.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…yes, still in many primary schools even though some children will have same sex parents themselves…

You know what’s really wild? It’s not like that here… obviously if you were going into all kinds of details about your partner and things got inappropriate, it would be frowned upon… but in general, the schools can’t tell you not to talk about your home life with the kids

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

No, absolutely, but adults have a habit of looking at the world through adult eyes and forget children don't see the world like that and just accept things at face value.

My niece and nephew have never ever questioned why I have a husband. To them it just is, as that's how it's always been. It doesn't need an explanation, whereas I've seen many a time adults say kids shouldn't learn about same-sex relationships until they're older to "understand". They are often projecting their own lack of understanding onto children.

Yeah I agree with that. Adults certainly over complicate things like this. There really isn't a lot to understand about it really, in fact a primary aged child probably thinks same sex marriages are more understandable when they're that age

[Crimson Dynamo]

[The Slim Reaper]

Keep looking at those people, not us.

[The Slim Reaper]

[Liam-]

You should know by now Slim that only certain types of misogyny are worthy of critique

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Liam-

You should know by now Slim that only certain types of misogyny are worthy of critique

Honestly a completely mental post deletion. I don't get what was going through whichever mod/admins head decided to delete it.

I have a lot of posts removed; sometimes because of conversations on the other side, sometimes because of me, but this is the absolute stupidest nonsense I've ever seen on here. I guess healthcare decisions that infringe upon women is irrelevant in the grand scheme of issues such as a word, but there was absolutely nothing wrong with my post.

[Vicky.]

I didn't delete it but from looking it was totally off topic so that's probably why it was deleted..

(It's a vile story tho)

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I didn't delete it but from looking it was totally off topic so that's probably why it was deleted..

(It's a vile story tho)

How could it have possibly been off topic? It was a post about women's healthcare being attacked, in a thread about women's rights. It's impossible to be more on-topic than that.

oh, and thanks for the reply.

[Cherie]

Lets bring every story that denigrates women in to prove that women are denigrated....who knew...yes we knew....women ...yay

[The Slim Reaper]

From excitement over a word, to dismissive over a brain dead woman being forced to carry a pregnancy to term. Not exactly what my priority would be, but we are entitled to follow our own paths.

[Cherie]

thin end of the wedge, to the fat end.... denigrate women however you can ...yay

[The Slim Reaper]

Who is denigrating women? Please point to specifics, not make believe.