[Cherie]

Are you familiar with these new pronouns

A Labour-run council has told staff to announce their pronouns at the start of meetings.

Bosses at Wandsworth borough council are also encouraging employees to add general neutral pronouns such as “ze/zir/zem” to email signatures and their social media profiles.

In an internal memo, seen by The Telegraph, it is argued that “people from the non-binary and transgender communities” need to be “more seen and recognised”.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainm...2efa3180&ei=23


Personally I don't think anyone should be forced to put anything on their email signature that they don't want to put there It should be personal choice

[Vicky.]

Thought everyone could pick their own pronouns, thought that was the point...'encouraging,' people to pick certain ones doesn't tally...

[rusticgal]

The world has gone mad...

[jones89]

I was making an appointment online the other day and i noticed these were included in the pronouns section…

if i’m to acknowledge or use those i’m gonna need to know what the hell ze/zir/zem means!

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Thought everyone could pick their own pronouns, thought that was the point...'encouraging,' people to pick certain ones doesn't tally...

I don't think they're encouraging people to put gender neutral pronouns if they aren't gender neutral, just if they are. It reads very weirdly.

I have, obviously, many opinions on this.

1. Nobody should be forced to do this. Encouragement is one thing, it being a requirement is another. I understand the logic in encouraging it - which is if cisgender people do it, then it makes it less obvious when gender-neutral people do it, which may make people feel more comfortable if putting 'they/them' on a signature for example and saves someone referring to them as 'she' or 'he' when that's not how they identify.

2. Putting pronouns in email signatures can actually be helpful for many people who have gender neutral names such as Sam, Jo, Alex, Ali etc... I was referring to someone called Alfie as a he for ages until I realised they were a woman! I didn't even know Alfie was a woman's name!

3. All this talk about discrimination towards people who don't subscribe to then 'ideology' and liken it to the tooth fairy etc... urgh. Literally what is the harm is referencing someone as a he if that's how they prefer to be referenced regardless of whether they are biologically a girl or whatever. Like nobody else is asking you to believe, just respect others belief. Like I do with religion. I will ask colleagues and friends about their religious celebrations even though I think the whole thing is totally made up rubbish! I know people who have a different name on their birth certificate to the one they want to be called and I call them by their preferred name because it's just manners. It's not technically their given name, but why would I care.

4. Fiona needs to understand pronouns are not just about sex, but also gender. We refer to people we didn't know the gender of as 'they' many times in life, so why now is it an issue when people are asked to out of respect for self-identification.

5. I don't understand ze/zer/zim in the slightest and I don't understand loads of other Neo-pronouns but I also really don't give a **** if someone asks me to refer to them in that way because it makes literally no difference to me or my life but makes a lot of difference to theirs.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by jones89

I was making an appointment online the other day and i noticed these were included in the pronouns section…

if i’m to acknowledge or use those i’m gonna need to know what the hell ze/zir/zem means!

I think its a special way of saying they/them/theirs from what I can gather, not sure why the original way was not good enough, I had never heard of this and if I had seen it on a form I would have thought it was a typo

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I don't think they're encouraging people to put gender neutral pronouns if they aren't gender neutral, just if they are. It reads very weirdly.

I have, obviously, many opinions on this.

1. Nobody should be forced to do this. Encouragement is one thing, it being a requirement is another. I understand the logic in encouraging it - which is if cisgender people do it, then it makes it less obvious when gender-neutral people do it, which may make people feel more comfortable if putting 'they/them' on a signature for example and saves someone referring to them as 'she' or 'he' when that's not how they identify.

2. Putting pronouns in email signatures can actually be helpful for many people who have gender neutral names such as Sam, Jo, Alex, Ali etc... I was referring to someone called Alfie as a he for ages until I realised they were a woman! I didn't even know Alfie was a woman's name!

3. All this talk about discrimination towards people who don't subscribe to then 'ideology' and liken it to the tooth fairy etc... urgh. Literally what is the harm is referencing someone as a he if that's how they prefer to be referenced regardless of whether they are biologically a girl or whatever. Like nobody else is asking you to believe, just respect others belief. Like I do with religion. I will ask colleagues and friends about their religious celebrations even though I think the whole thing is totally made up rubbish! I know people who have a different name on their birth certificate to the one they want to be called and I call them by their preferred name because it's just manners. It's not technically their given name, but why would I care.

4. Fiona needs to understand pronouns are not just about sex, but also gender. We refer to people we didn't know the gender of as 'they' many times in life, so why now is it an issue when people are asked to out of respect for self-identification.

5. I don't understand ze/zer/zim in the slightest and I don't understand loads of other Neo-pronouns but I also really don't give a **** if someone asks me to refer to them in that way because it makes literally no difference to me or my life but makes a lot of difference to theirs.

When the goalposts are constantly moved, dont expect people to give a **** and follow every change, if they want to be referred to that fine, but dont expect me to know it Ze is over there... wtf

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Cherie

[/B]

When the goalposts are constantly moved, dont expect people to give a **** and follow every change, if they want to be referred to that fine, but dont expect me to know it Ze is over there... wtf

I don't think anyone expects everyone to know about it, and the vast majority of gender neutral people would be fine with being misgendered accidentally, it's when it's done deliberately it's rude.

It's not that people should give a ****. It's that people should probably care about it less. Oh okay they want to be referred to as them instead of he. Fine. In the same way we call people by their nicknames without issue, without saying things like "Well I'll refer to what's on your birth certificate" like some kind of pleb.

[Cherie]

Can you form a sentence and how you would you use it?

[Cherie]

Saying this is like a nickname is just silly a nickname is used just like your normal name

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Can you form a sentence and how you would you use it?

Literally exactly the same way I would say she or he.

"Where is Alfie"
"Ze is by the water cooler"
"Okay I have a meeting with zim shortly"

"Where is Alfie"
"They are by the water cooler"
"Okay I have a meeting with them shortly"

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Literally exactly the same way I would say she or he.

"Where is Alfie"
"Ze is by the water cooler"
"Okay I have a meeting with zim shortly"

"Where is Alfie"
"They are by the water cooler"
"Okay I have a meeting with them shortly"

I rest my case

and don't tell me this is not going to cause offence because some people just live to be offended

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Saying this is like a nickname is just silly a nickname is used just like your normal name

Neo pronouns are used just like he/him/she/her pronouns.

I'm not too familiar with ze/zir/zem pronouns and have never had to use them. I would ask the person for clarification or google it should the situation ever arise.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I rest my case

and don't tell me this is not going to cause offence because some people just live to be offended

What do you mean?

[Cherie]

What if there is someone is the office called Zee

Where is Alfie
Ze is over there

honesty the gymnastics you do to justify this shite is just impossible to get my head around

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Neo pronouns are used just like he/him/she/her pronouns.

I'm not too familiar with ze/zir/zem pronouns and have never had to use them. I would ask the person for clarification or google it should the situation ever arise.

Just hold a moment Alfie while I google what I need to refer to you as...okay

[Ray.]

I think those particular pronouns are reserved solely for German people.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Cherie

What if there is someone is the office called Zee

Where is Alfie
Ze is over there

honesty the gymnastics you do to justify this shite is just impossible to get my head around

Okay, that's fine Cherie, you do you and stay mad over... erm... the way other people identify.

Originally Posted by Cherie

Just hold a moment Alfie while I google what I need to refer to you as...okay

I think if someone says "my pronouns are ze/zir/zem" the majority of gender neutral people would absolutely welcome clarification to avoid offence.

"Alfie, I'll be honest I'm not that familiar with those pronouns, can you just tell me the correct situation to use each one in so I make sure I get it right".

Like why am I having to teach a grown adult how to converse in a respectful way.

[Parmy]

I will be very honest here.....If I was Gay I would be deeply embarrassed by all this absolute codswallop.

[BBXX]

Just a reminder that literally all words are made up.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Okay, that's fine Cherie, you do you and stay mad over... erm... the way other people identify.



I think if someone says "my pronouns are ze/zir/zem" the majority of gender neutral people would absolutely welcome clarification to avoid offence.

"Alfie, I'll be honest I'm not that familiar with those pronouns, can you just tell me the correct situation to use each one in so I make sure I get it right".

Like why am I having to teach a grown adult how to converse in a respectful way.

mmm respect works both ways, not just one way, if non binarys choose to keep changing how they are referred to respectfully I dont have to fall in line,

Just as an aside do you think everyone who starts a thread is mad at stuff, I know that's you just baiting but just to be clear I'm not mad I am bemused by the stupidity and the sheep like acceptance ..

[Parmy]

About time all these selfish brats started respecting people who don't sign up for their stupid name games.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Cherie

mmm respect works both ways, not just one way, if non binarys choose to keep changing how they are referred to respectfully I dont have to fall in line

Can you explain why it's disrespectful to you to change how you refer to someone to suit their identity. Do you find it disrespectful to you having to call someone a different surname when they get married and then refer back to their maiden name when they get divorced?

Just as an aside do you think everyone who starts a thread is mad at stuff, I know that's you just baiting but just to be clear I'm not mad I am bemused by the stupidity and the sheep like acceptance ..

No, which is why I actually gave a pretty balanced viewpoint and even agreed with you nobody should be mandated to express their pronouns. I thought you were mad when you called people wanting to identify in a certain way shite.

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word mad, perhaps the right adjective would be miserable.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Can you explain why it's disrespectful to you to change how you refer to someone to suit their identity. Do you find it disrespectful to you having to call someone a different surname when they get married and then refer back to their maiden name when they get divorced?



No, which is why I actually gave a pretty balanced viewpoint and even agreed with you nobody should be mandated to express their pronouns. I thought you were mad when you called people wanting to identify in a certain way shite.

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word mad, perhaps the right adjective would be miserable.

Just to clarify its not very respectful to others to keep moving the goalposts as to how someone wishes to be referred, its quite demanding and unnecessary.

Mad to Miserable... you tried with the baiting tbf. I will leave you to it, if you cant engage without trying to get personal digs I am not particularly interested in what you have to say

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Parmy

About time all these selfish brats started respecting people who don't sign up for their stupid name games.

No no Parmy you must do as they ask no matter how foolish it it