[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Still that’s exterminating 95.9% of evil , callous people … thereby making the streets much safer

You wouldn't be saying that if you got wrongly accused of a crime ,with an awful justice system to rely on . Or a crap lawyer .

[Crimson Dynamo]

People: oh you cant execute murderers as they may be wrongly accused

Same People; yeah, lock them up for life even if they are wrongly accused i dont care

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

You wouldn't be saying that if you got wrongly accused of a crime ,with an awful justice system to rely on . Or a crap lawyer .

Have you seen the stats of released murderers.. murdering a second innocent victim ?

•UK Context: A report covering roughly a decade found that 29 individuals with previous homicide convictions (including murder and manslaughter) went on to kill again.


Ministry of Justice data analysed by Yahoo News UK shows that 348 people were convicted of murder while under the supervision of probation services from March 2015 to March 2020.

Hundreds of murders have been committed by dangerous criminals on probation who weren't being monitored properly after being released from prison in England and Wales.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Death Row Error Rate: Approximately 4.1% of inmates on death row are estimated to be innocent.

…this was the source for my ‘1 for around every 8/9’….its deathlenaltyinfo.org which feels like an official/reliable information source…I didn’t want to look at anything media led/related as that can often be slanted dependant on the leaning of media source bias…I think it was actually 1 death row prisoner exonerated for every 8.3 executed, so I did average that at between 8/9…




Since 1973, at least 202 people who were wrongly convicted and sentenced to death in the U.S. have been exonerated.


A Death Penalty Information Center database of every death-row exoneration since 1972. For every 8 people executed in the United States, one other person has been exonerated from death row.


The Most Common Causes of Wrongful Death Penalty Convictions: Official Misconduct and Perjury or False Accusation (…in effect, a corrupt/flawed system that is dealing with life and death..)…


https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-...licy/innocence

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…I mean, every day we see outcries of a policing/justice system that feels very broken atm and those are all parts of the wheels of a system that we would rely on in a death penalty system …and ironically one of the high security prisoners in the same prison as Ian Huntley was killed in is Wayne Couzens, a police officer who fell through a ‘foolproof or at least sound system’….I read that 1 death penalty prisoner in around 8/9 was exonerated and that’s scarily high, I would say…there may be advancements in DNA evidence etc but to counter that there is also a very quick moving advancement in ‘deep fake’ technology …

I will never support the death penalty.
Absolutely 100% not.

Just one innocent person executed would be way too many.
I also think it would be a barbaric step backwards immaterial of the evidence.
Your point on DNA and deep fake issues is a very strong point too.

I hope it's never ever brought back.

[Glenn.]

The actual issue with the death penalty is that innocent people do get convicted. Even the stats posted here show that. If the system can get it wrong, the state shouldn’t have the power to carry out an irreversible punishment.

Keeping someone locked up forever protects the public without risking executing the wrong person. That seems like the far more sensible line to draw.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

The actual issue with the death penalty is that innocent people do get convicted. Even the stats posted here show that. If the system can get it wrong, the state shouldn’t have the power to carry out an irreversible punishment.

Keeping someone locked up forever protects the public without risking executing the wrong person. That seems like the far more sensible line to draw.

This, definitely.
I agree fully.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Have you seen the stats of released murderers.. murdering a second innocent victim ?

•UK Context: A report covering roughly a decade found that 29 individuals with previous homicide convictions (including murder and manslaughter) went on to kill again.


Ministry of Justice data analysed by Yahoo News UK shows that 348 people were convicted of murder while under the supervision of probation services from March 2015 to March 2020.

Hundreds of murders have been committed by dangerous criminals on probation who weren't being monitored properly after being released from prison in England and Wales.

Precisely! and this is the system you would trust and have faith in to execute the right people?!, you don't think they'd f it up ?? .

The attitude seems to be " well a few innocent people can get sacrificed" ...so long as there's a high rate of evil criminals getting the death penalty then that makes it ok ? .


The law needs to change and be alot more strict ,but I could never agree to the death penalty.

Yes criminals re offend especially the ones who do the most abhorrent acts,which is exactly why LIFE should mean LIFE with no chance of parole and throw away the key . The whole point is to keep the streets safe ,and keep the dangerous locked up .

Also prisons need to be prisons,more high security and non of this BS where they're allowed TV , Internet , phone etc .

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Death Row Error Rate: Approximately 4.1% of inmates on death row are estimated to be innocent.

Well, there you go. If one of those 4.1% was one of your relatives, how would you feel then?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Redway

Well, there you go. If one of those 4.1% was one of your relatives, how would you feel then?

I remember watching a TV experiment programme about the criminal law & system, they were dealing with a real life horrific crime where a guy murdered his wife with a hammer.

Now you would think it would be pretty clean cut that it was murder ,the guy used a hammer he was clearly guilty,it was no self defense and it was no manslaughter . He clearly meant to kill her ,he went and got the hammer of all items to end her life in the most grisly way .

Yet 2 juries... same case and 2 different outcomes. So yeah I don't think I could ever put my faith in the justice system.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I remember watching a TV experiment programme about the criminal law & system, they were dealing with a real life horrific crime where a guy murdered his wife with a hammer.

Now you would think it would be pretty clean cut that it was murder ,the guy used a hammer he was clearly guilty,it was no self defense and it was no manslaughter . He clearly meant to kill her ,he went and got the hammer of all items to end her life in the most grisly way .

Yet 2 juries... same case and 2 different outcomes. So yeah I don't think I could ever put my faith in the justice system.

It’s hard to put one’s faith in the justice-system even as-is and at the best of times (whatever those really are). One wrongful killing, as joeysteele pointed out, is one-too-many and does to innocent people exactly what we’re trying to retribute against when we believe them to be guilty. So I’m not sure how helpful that would be. And that’s really all I’m saying on this thread. Not once have I insulted or come for anyone, so I really don’t know what that unnecessary insinuation came from. I’m not saying anything different from what other people have said.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Redway

It’s hard to put one’s faith in the justice-system even as-is and at the best of times (whatever those really are). One wrongful killing, as joeysteele pointed out, is one-too-many and does to innocent people exactly what we’re trying to retribute against when we believe them to be guilty. So I’m not sure how helpful that would be. And that’s really all I’m saying on this thread. Not once have I insulted or come for anyone, so I really don’t know what that unnecessary insinuation came from. I’m not saying anything different from what other people have said.

Yesh that's what I'm saying , I would never trust the criminal system or a jury when it came to the death penalty . The fact they can't agree when someone is guilty or innocent, I don't know what makes people think they'd execute the right person . They'd always be that doubt.

[Alf]

Who cares? let's put our attention back on Andrew Mountbatten and Peter Mandleson.

They're good at distracting you, arne't they?

[Redway]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Yesh that's what I'm saying , I would never trust the criminal system or a jury when it came to the death penalty . The fact they can't agree when someone is guilty or innocent, I don't know what makes people think they'd execute the right person . They'd always be that doubt.

I know, love. I understand what you’re saying.

Also. Not to make this more racial than it needs to be but there have been quite a few incidences over the years where black men in-particular have been wrongly convicted and then killed. No-doubt individual instances come from a place of racism and racial bias. There’s no getting away from that historically.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Alf

Who cares? let's put our attention back on Andrew Mountbatten and Peter Mandleson.

They're good at distracting you, arne't they?

You are in the wrong thread plus they are being investigated by the police

[arista]

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Zizu

That always been an interesting viewpoint ..



The chances of a complete misjudgment in a serious murder enquiry are minuscule so if 99.9% of evil murderers are given a lethal injection then that would make our land far , far safer and minimises the chances of innocent children/ people being viciously murdered.


I would happily risk one ‘relatively’ innocent person being put down (I researched quite a few miscarriage of justice cases years ago and the vast majority were actually career criminals with extensive lists of violent crimes on their files ) ( so can they really be considered ‘innocent’ in the truest sense ?

I understand where you're coming from.

But what if there happened to be someone in that 0.1% that had never committed a single crime? Should they be sacrificed just so we can kill the 99.9% of monsters?

Again I can understand where you're coming from if you were to say yes, but personally I don't feel comfortable with the idea.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by bots

there is no right or wrong way for families who have lost their loved ones to murder react. There isn't even a typical way they respond. Everyone on earth processes it differently

I 100% agree.

It would feel performative imo if every single one of the victims family members were to have the exact same reaction.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

You wouldn't be saying that if you got wrongly accused of a crime ,with an awful justice system to rely on . Or a crap lawyer .

Exactly.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Precisely! and this is the system you would trust and have faith in to execute the right people?!, you don't think they'd f it up ?? .

The attitude seems to be " well a few innocent people can get sacrificed" ...so long as there's a high rate of evil criminals getting the death penalty then that makes it ok ? .


The law needs to change and be alot more strict ,but I could never agree to the death penalty.

Yes criminals re offend especially the ones who do the most abhorrent acts,which is exactly why LIFE should mean LIFE with no chance of parole and throw away the key . The whole point is to keep the streets safe ,and keep the dangerous locked up .

Also prisons need to be prisons,more high security and non of this BS where they're allowed TV , Internet , phone etc .

…I agree entirely that sentencing should be what the sentence is that’s given and not just a fraction of that …so there are definitely things to address, I feel…but there is a huge area between extremes of lenient/reduced sentencing and death sentence…when life sentence is given for abhorrent crimes then life should be served…

[bots]

The reality in the modern age is that prisoners can be tagged and monitored. There is no actual need to physically lock them up. Only the most violent offenders that pose a direct threat to the public need to be imprisoned. We need to get used to that, it would save us a lot of money

[Redway]

Originally Posted by bots

The reality in the modern age is that prisoners can be tagged and monitored. There is no actual need to physically lock them up. Only the most violent offenders that pose a direct threat to the public need to be imprisoned. We need to get used to that, it would save us a lot of money

Not sure about this, tbh.

[Livia]

There's not much faith in the police nor the judicial system, is there. DNA can't be falsified. Also, is there really anyone on here who thinks Huntley was wrongly convicted or fitted up in some way? But people would rather he was still sitting in his cell watching TV, drinking tea and eating biscuits, while those two ten year old girls are in the ground. Far too much time is spent worrying about the murderers and far loo little about the victims.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Livia

There's not much faith in the police nor the judicial system, is there. DNA can't be falsified. Also, is there really anyone on here who thinks Huntley was wrongly convicted or fitted up in some way? But people would rather he was still sitting in his cell watching TV, drinking tea and eating biscuits, while those two ten year old girls are in the ground. Far too much time is spent worrying about the murderers and far loo little about the victims.

A man spent 17 years in prison based on dna evidence only to find out later the the dna wasn’t even tested

When it was tested the dna belonged to another man

[Livia]

You're referring to a case where the man was jailed ore than 20 years ago. DNA evidence was in its infancy then, he was cleared eventually because his DNA had been stored at the time and he was cleared using modern techniques. It's not the same today.