[WOMBAI]

The debate has got too caught up in religion. I have stated on several occassions that it isn't so much about the religion but the culture and way of live that has resulted from it. If this had originated as a Muslim country - our way of live would be completely different. That is my point. To deny that our Christian history has anything to do with our current way of life - stikes me as absurd. We are what we are - moulded by many things - a big part of that is our history - our Christian roots giving us the identity we have today as a nation.

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

The debate has got too caught up in religion. I have stated on several occassions that it isn't so much about the religion but the culture and way of live that has resulted from it. If this had originated as a Muslim country - our way of live would be completely different. That is my point. To deny that our Christian history has anything to do with our current way of life - stikes me as absurd. We are what we are - moulded by many things - a big part of that is our history - our Christian roots giving us the identity we have today as a nation.

Guess what, my country(Senegal) is 95 % muslim. Hardly anyone wears hijab, nobody wears Burkha (I have never seen it) Women wear mini skirt, there are homosexuals, women are as free as any western culture.
The Burkha again is a personal thing, believe it or not. Less than 5% of women maybe wear them. Its like in any religion, there are always those that follow it to the letter, more than others. Some even more than they should. Even in Christianity, you will see that. Go see the mormons in the US.

But trust me, most people who wear it, choose to do so on their own.
I lived in Morocco as a kid, and one of our maids use to wear it, as soon as she leaves the house, and we always made fun of her. ANd she was not married, she lived in a apartment with another friend. It was just her convictions.
My point is, its not because people wear something extreme, that somehow, they are oppressed. And they dont force it on anyone.
LIke I said before, I do think it shouldnt be allowed in certain places, like schools, and anywhere people need to be identified, but to the woman going about her day, I dont see what the hell is the problem.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

We are what we are - moulded by many things - a big part of that is our history - our Christian roots giving us the identity we have today as a nation.

Here's where I get confused. Of course Christianity is a part of British history, but what major relevance does it play for most today? Now?

Not much.

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by Stu

Here's where I get confused. Of course Christianity is a part of British history, but what major relevance does it play for most today? Now?

Not much.

MOre like nothing, apart from Christmas and Easter. And thats more party time, than lets go to church time.

[hannah.]

morrissey <3
also
i agree

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

MOre like nothing, apart from Christmas and Easter. And thats more party time, than lets go to church time.

Yeah, we celebrate the death and resurrection of our messiah by telling kids a rabbit left chocolate eggs all over the house. Wonderful, isn't it?

[Oldmansteptoe!]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

This has nothing to do with BNP, its fair opinion and debate. But let me tell you something, you are wrong, if you think this country has any religious values whatsoever, unless you are blind.
There is no need for all this other rubbish, it leads to trouble???? Listen to yourself. Thats the kind of talk Staline and Hitler use to give.

It is because of 'liberals' like you that we are in the state we are in today
and Stalin doesn't have an e on the end, but you got Hitler right, well done!

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by Oldmansteptoe!

It is because of 'liberals' like you that we are in the state we are in today
and Stalin doesn't have an e on the end, but you got Hitler right, well done!

.............
Anyways!
Meanwhile back in the land of the sane...

[hannah.]

Originally Posted by Stu

Here's where I get confused. Of course Christianity is a part of British history, but what major relevance does it play for most today? Now?

Not much.

nothing apart from the world stopping on sundays.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Oldmansteptoe!

It is because of 'liberals' like you that we are in the state we are in today
and Stalin doesn't have an e on the end, but you got Hitler right, well done!

Christ that was dismal.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

Guess what, my country(Senegal) is 95 % muslim. Hardly anyone wears hijab, nobody wears Burkha (I have never seen it) Women wear mini skirt, there are homosexuals, women are as free as any western culture.
The Burkha again is a personal thing, believe it or not. Less than 5% of women maybe wear them. Its like in any religion, there are always those that follow it to the letter, more than others. Some even more than they should. Even in Christianity, you will see that. Go see the mormons in the US.

But trust me, most people who wear it, choose to do so on their own.
I lived in Morocco as a kid, and one of our maids use to wear it, as soon as she leaves the house, and we always made fun of her. ANd she was not married, she lived in a apartment with another friend. It was just her convictions.
My point is, its not because people wear something extreme, that somehow, they are oppressed. And they dont force it on anyone.
LIke I said before, I do think it shouldnt be allowed in certain places, like schools, and anywhere people need to be identified, but to the woman going about her day, I dont see what the hell is the problem.

I found this an interesting read. You might too! One of your own quotes (Wildcat) from a previous post:

"Very good article. Somewould benefit from reading that, instead of making these stupid assumptions, and dumb scenarios." I rest my case!
__________________

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...d-streets.html

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/...100208908.html

[Stu]

Daily Mail lolz.

[AndyJK]

Originally Posted by InOne

What do you think? I see it as a tool of opression and should be banned on public transport, and public transport. Bascially everywhere. They say it is a modest yet it draws more attention to them anyway??

I agree I don't believe it has a place in any free society. There is something menacing about it and I don't believe women should be covered in this way, it's demeaning.

Besides there are security issues to take into account also. We've already had an incident where a suspected bomber was able to flee the country dressed up in one.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by AndyJK

I agree I don't believe it has a place in any free society. There is something menacing about it and I don't believe women should be covered in this way, it's demeaning.

Besides there are security issues to take into account also. We've already had an incident where a suspected bomber was able to flee the country dressed up in one.

Thank you - you have proved my point.

[AndyJK]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Thank you - you have proved my point.

What point is that?

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by AndyJK

What point is that?

That a burkha impedes identification - and that anyone could be under there - including a terrorist with sinister motives.

[AndyJK]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

That a burkha impedes identification - and that anyone could be under there - including a terrorist with sinister motives.

Exactly and it makes life even harder for our beleaguered police force already bogged down in red tape and burdened with political correctness.

[InOne]

Well it is not really about Islam, it is about the principal of wearing it. But, as anyone who knows anything about Islam will know it is a forceful militant Religion. But anyway, the point is more about respect for the Country they seem to hate, yet insist on living it. It is not very appealing to look at. It has nothing to do with Islam and was imposed by the Taliban. It may not be a tool of opression here, but it is in some countries, and it is a dishonour to those women who are forced to wear. Also with Sharia courts in Britian, of course some women don't have a choice, just the same with marrige. You would be naive to think so.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I found this an interesting read. You might too! One of your own quotes (Wildcat) from a previous post:

"Very good article. Somewould benefit from reading that, instead of making these stupid assumptions, and dumb scenarios." I rest my case!
__________________

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...d-streets.html

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/...100208908.html

Yeh precisely what Ive been arguing...its the mulsim women of Britain that should be having this fight, not ignorant white people looking for an excuse to portray muslims in a bad light! Like you care two ***** about muslim women!

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

Well it is not really about Islam, it is about the principal of wearing it. But, as anyone who knows anything about Islam will know it is a forceful militant Religion. But anyway, the point is more about respect for the Country they seem to hate, yet insist on living it. It is not very appealing to look at. It has nothing to do with Islam and was imposed by the Taliban. It may not be a tool of opression here, but it is in some countries, and it is a dishonour to those women who are forced to wear. Also with Sharia courts in Britian, of course some women don't have a choice, just the same with marrige. You would be naive to think so.

There you go again...in one breath your saying its nothing to do with Islam and in the next breath your calling Islam a "forceful" "militant" religion! wtf???

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Yeh precisely what Ive been arguing...its the mulsim women of Britain that should be having this fight, not ignorant white people looking for an excuse to portray muslims in a bad light! Like you care two ***** about muslim women!

Your arguments have supported Muslim women wearing burkhas - whereas the above articles clearly don't.

And it isn't just about Muslim women (you are as prejudice as you accuse others of being) - this affects all women living in Britain. I care about womens' rights in general - the oppression of any women on the grounds of their sex affects us all. Do you not understand that?

You should look at that great big chip on your shoulder - before you are so quick to accuse others of being ignorant!

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Your arguments have supported Muslim women wearing burkhas - whereas the above articles clearly don't.

And it isn't just about Muslim women (you are as prejudice as you accuse others of being) - this affects all women living in Britain. I care about womens' rights in general - the oppression of any women on the grounds of their sex affects us all. Do you not understand that?

You should look at that great big chip on your shoulder - before you are so quick to accuse others of being ignorant!

Ive supported peoples right to choose yes, there are women who choose to wear it. And yes I may see it as oppressive but its not for me to enforce my will on the people that do it out of choice. Its a fight for muslims women themselves and our role is to support them not play the role of the enforcer (it doesnt work it only pushes those marginalised already to furthur extremes)... and Im sorry but some of the comments on here lead me to believe that this is another excuse to portray muslims as fanatical generally...there is a pattern forming and some of you are blatantly intolerant and prejudiced!

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Ive supported peoples right to choose yes, there are women who choose to wear it. And yes I may see it as oppressive but its not for me to enforce my will on the people that do it out of choice. Its a fight for muslims women themselves and our role is to support them not play the role of the enforcer (it doesnt work it only pushes those marginalised already to furthur extremes)... and Im sorry but some of the comments on here lead me to believe that this is another excuse to portray muslims as fanatical generally...there is a pattern forming and some of you are blatantly intolerant and prejudiced!

You are still missing the point! Whether they have a right to that 'choice' you keep bleating on about is the point. They have CHOSEN to live in a non-Muslim country - therefore it is not just about their choice - when such a choice goes against the values of the culture already established in that country.

For every Muslim woman that 'chooses' to wear it - there are many more that don't. It is what it represents. There is plenty of evidence to suggest many muslims are only doing so to be controversial and stir up trouble - the wearing of a burkha is not required under Islamic law.

There is no denying that the Muslim religion makes many demands - but does it have a right to do so in a non-Muslim country? In mine and many others opinions - it does not! And as for your intolerance comment - the Muslim religion is the most intolerant of all - so don't judge me based on your obvious double standards.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

You are still missing the point! Whether they have a right to that 'choice' you keep bleating on about is the point. They have CHOSEN to live in a non-Muslim country - therefore it is not just about their choice - when such a choice goes against the values of the culture already established in that country.

For every Muslim woman that 'chooses' to wear it - there are many more that don't. It is what it represents. There is plenty of evidence to suggest many muslims are only doing so to be controversial and stir up trouble - the wearing of a burkha is not required under Islamic law.

There is no denying that the Muslim religion makes many demands - but does it have a right to do so in a non-Muslim country? In mine and many others opinions - it does not! And as for your intolerance comment - the Muslim religion is the most intolerant of all - so don't judge me based on your obvious double standards.

The muslim religion is not intolerant, your making a very sweeping generalisation based on the values and political motivations of a small minority. This is a country that accepts all cultures and respects peoples rights to wear whatever they bloody well like and most people do so appropriately and cause no harm. The argument against enforcement is obviously lost on you so I'll give up...till the next time you guys have some rant about muslims to make

[Stu]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

The muslim religion is not intolerant, your making a very sweeping generalisation based on the values and political motivations of a small minority. This is a country that accepts all cultures and respects peoples rights to wear whatever they bloody well like and most people do so appropriately and cause no harm. The argument against enforcement is obviously lost on you so I'll give up...till the next time you guys have some rant about muslims to make

Repped .