[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by angus58

Nope I'm working class through and through, and I think it's time that public sector spending was reigned in as it has got out of control under New Labour. Prune back the bureacracy and state interference, and divert resources to where they are needed most. Take back control of our borders and allocate our limited resources more fairly. It's not rocket science, just common sense and good housekeeping, living within one's budget, not borrowing money you can't afford to pay back, like New Labour have been doing for years.

Encourage self sufficiency and independence for those capable of it, and look after and provide for those who REALLY need help, not the feckless and workshy who think they are entitled to be supported from cradle to grave.

The thing with public sector money though is it's not just about the dole, what about the people that need help? People with disabilities, carers, the elderly ETC. There's a lot of people in need going without WITH the extra money involved it's just gonna get worse if you cut public budgets. With the workshy it's just a matter of putting more controls in place, I like the idea that if you're on the dole for a certain length of time then you have to do community service to pay your way in a sense.

I can definitely see your point and I agree that people who can be, need to be more independent but I don't think cutting budgets is the way.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The thing with public sector money though is it's not just about the dole, what about the people that need help? People with disabilities, carers, the elderly ETC. There's a lot of people in need going without WITH the extra money involved it's just gonna get worse if you cut public budgets. With the workshy it's just a matter of putting more controls in place, I like the idea that if you're on the dole for a certain length of time then you have to do community service to pay your way in a sense.

I can definitely see your point and I agree that people who can be, need to be more independent but I don't think cutting budgets is the way.

I totally believe that those who really NEED help should always get it -but at the moment we have a welfare system that rewards the undeserving, and is open to fraud and abuse. The eldlerly in this country are sidelined all the time in favour of the likes of feckless single mothers and workshy loafers. There are committees for this, quangos for that and all the time the bureaucracy increases, until there are more managers than bloody workers in some cases. The NHS is a case in point - where standards have fallen dramatically whilst costs have risen exponentially.

There are ways of pruning the deadwood from the Welfare State and the NHS which would free up resources to finance those areas that really need it. It is not always necessary to implement cuts, just restructure and divert resources more critically.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by angus58

I totally believe that those who really NEED help should always get it -but at the moment we have a welfare system that rewards the undeserving, and is open to fraud and abuse. The eldlerly in this country are sidelined all the time in favour of the likes of feckless single mothers and workshy loafers. There are committees for this, quangos for that and all the time the bureaucracy increases, until there are more managers than bloody workers in some cases. The NHS is a case in point - where standards have fallen dramatically whilst costs have risen exponentially.

There are ways of pruning the deadwood from the Welfare State and the NHS which would free up resources to finance those areas that really need it. It is not always necessary to implement cuts, just restructure and divert resources more critically.

I agree, we need restructuring a lot more then we need cuts. The problem with cutting the budget is that it won't solve the problem of Dole dossers, it'll only limit the money for people who legitimately need it. With restructuring though processes and methods could be put in place to weed out the undeserving and then maybe cuts can be applied IF it can be afforded.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I agree, we need restructuring a lot more then we need cuts. The problem with cutting the budget is that it won't solve the problem of Dole dossers, it'll only limit the money for people who legitimately need it. With restructuring though processes and methods could be put in place to weed out the undeserving and then maybe cuts can be applied IF it can be afforded.

This is what I don't understand about New Labour - they have had 13 years in which to address this very problem and yet they have done nothing constructive, in fact they have demonised and penalised soft targets like the disabled, making them jump through hoops for help. They have done little to combat fraud and abuse of the system because they have lost track of how many illegal immigrants our lax border controls have allowed into this country to claim benefits under false names. Instead Labour's answer is to just keep borrowing more and more money to throw at the problem.