[joeysteele]

This is a misleading thread, no one I would safely believe thinks Steve should not win because of the disabilities he has,that is a wrong assumption that anyone thinks that.
The sad thing as to Stev is the more he talks about subjects the more extreme his views and also intolerance,as shown in the tasks he can still do a fair amount in them and he can still talk so there is lots to judge him on as to his being a good,fair or bad housemate.
For me his discussion with Ben as to the UK getting involved in foreign countries,his view that people should only be able to comment on such things if they were an MP or had been in the forces,showed Steve to have some odd and bigoted views,when he said if a child of his ever went to prison,that he wouldn't visit them left me stunned,what a pretentious and uncompromising person. He knows he snores and annoys many housemates with it but he does nothing about it,how very selfish,then he castigates Ben for not as he sees it being a team player,so he nominates Ben week after week for that,rediculous as Ben has done many tasks but okay he can be a bit non conformist and is always upfront about it, so Steve has no respect for honesty in people either.
However the reason people are now against Steve is because as Ben pointed out TO STEVE,since the new girls especially Rachel had come in the house Steve was like dog in heat.It is the combination of those few things,and I could have listed many more, that will likely stop the public wanting Steve to win, not his disabilities. The thing for me is that when he wants a laugh,he expects everyone to want to too, but when he cannot be bothered and the other housemates are having fun, being younger, he moans and groans and tells them to stop,like a grumpy old neighbour who always tries to spoil others fun.That is the reason he is more disliked and his really sick flirting with Keeley and Rachel when he knows his wife and kids could be watching makes me feel really sick indeed,he's a dirty old man and a very bad housemate indeed who gets more boring and irrelevant as the days pass.
Nothing to do with his disabilities,he is just not a nice man at all and thats starting to show more and more.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by lime

Actually WOMBAI I remember Mikey telling HM's that getting around was tiring for him and a few of his HM"s discussing it that evening and agreeing that it would be the case if you had no vision.
So I disagree ,I think Mikey's disability would effect his physical energy.

Fair enough - but it seems obvious to me - that the physical energy required for Steve to get about - must be even more tiring for him - by the very nature of his type of injuries and his age!

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Steve should not win because he has no legs ,the winner should win on merit and merit alone

That depends what you mean by merit! Personally I don't think the biggest bitch should win, as some find that entertaining, or the best looking - which is clearly why some get voted for! What determines merit - as people find different things entertaining!

[Gillian-73]

If steve was an entertaining HM i would agree, but he's not! He does nothing to entertain us! He thinks he's the leader of the house, why does he think that? Because hes using his own disability and service for his own ends, ie: to be the leader of the house! He is no winner in my eyes! I vote for the HMs i like who make me laugh and entertain me! Steve fails on all counts!

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Gillian-73

If steve was an entertaining HM i would agree, but he's not! He does nothing to entertain us! He thinks he's the leader of the house, why does he think that? Because hes using his own disability and service for his own ends, ie: to be the leader of the house! He is no winner in my eyes! I vote for the HMs i like who make me laugh and entertain me! Steve fails on all counts!

Your idea of entertainment is not the same as everyone's though! He didn't just assume the role of house leader - it was put on him by the others who originally seemed to see him that way! But as the bitching and the self-preservation kick-in, so his position is challenged! He was quite happy to take the role - but I don't think he really cares one way or the other!

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Gillian-73

If steve was an entertaining HM i would agree, but he's not! He does nothing to entertain us! He thinks he's the leader of the house, why does he think that? Because hes using his own disability and service for his own ends, ie: to be the leader of the house! He is no winner in my eyes! I vote for the HMs i like who make me laugh and entertain me! Steve fails on all counts!

did you really say steve is using his disability for his own ends..jesus aged christ, what a dimwit.

[fruit_cake]

just getting out of bed is a major task for steve, i can't believe people expect him to be the life and sole of the party!!! i'd like to see them entertain everyone with no legs!!!

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

This is a misleading thread, no one I would safely believe thinks Steve should not win because of the disabilities he has,that is a wrong assumption that anyone thinks that.
The sad thing as to Stev is the more he talks about subjects the more extreme his views and also intolerance,as shown in the tasks he can still do a fair amount in them and he can still talk so there is lots to judge him on as to his being a good,fair or bad housemate.
For me his discussion with Ben as to the UK getting involved in foreign countries,his view that people should only be able to comment on such things if they were an MP or had been in the forces,showed Steve to have some odd and bigoted views,when he said if a child of his ever went to prison,that he wouldn't visit them left me stunned,what a pretentious and uncompromising person. He knows he snores and annoys many housemates with it but he does nothing about it,how very selfish,then he castigates Ben for not as he sees it being a team player,so he nominates Ben week after week for that,rediculous as Ben has done many tasks but okay he can be a bit non conformist and is always upfront about it, so Steve has no respect for honesty in people either.
However the reason people are now against Steve is because as Ben pointed out TO STEVE,since the new girls especially Rachel had come in the house Steve was like dog in heat.It is the combination of those few things,and I could have listed many more, that will likely stop the public wanting Steve to win, not his disabilities. The thing for me is that when he wants a laugh,he expects everyone to want to too, but when he cannot be bothered and the other housemates are having fun, being younger, he moans and groans and tells them to stop,like a grumpy old neighbour who always tries to spoil others fun.That is the reason he is more disliked and his really sick flirting with Keeley and Rachel when he knows his wife and kids could be watching makes me feel really sick indeed,he's a dirty old man and a very bad housemate indeed who gets more boring and irrelevant as the days pass.
Nothing to do with his disabilities,he is just not a nice man at all and thats starting to show more and more.

Great post.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

..when he said if a child of his ever went to prison,that he wouldn't visit them left me stunned,what a pretentious and uncompromising person.

This has been a common view held by parents who love their children enough to discipline them (as in teach lessons, guide).

This used to be understood as a GOOD POSITION and the sign of a good parenting.
This was (and still is by some) considered an admirable and noble and 'righteous' thing to do.

The idea here is that he is informing his children that IF they are in the wrong, get arrested then they will have to pay the consequences in full.
Its sometimes called 'tough love'.

Not only did parents NOT visit (and forget helping) their children in jail,
but,
even inmates considered it 'morally wrong' to allow their parents to visit as they were ashamed to put the parents in that position and just have them be seen in prison for what they (the child) had done.

To really give you the idea here - when my Dad was arrested (as a younger lad) my Grandfather got a call from the police.
"We have your boy here.. caught doing some crimes.. what would you like us to do with him?"
My Grandfather sternly instructed them to hold him accountable to the MAXIMUM the law would allow and to lock him up for as long as they could.
To this day my father is still thankful for that 'tough love' and respected his father for it.

So that from Steve is one of the reasons I would consider voting for him to win BB11.

[Niamh.]

Steve is not an entertaining HM, therefore he has no business winning the show.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

This is a misleading thread, no one I would safely believe thinks Steve should not win because of the disabilities he has,that is a wrong assumption that anyone thinks that.
The sad thing as to Stev is the more he talks about subjects the more extreme his views and also intolerance,as shown in the tasks he can still do a fair amount in them and he can still talk so there is lots to judge him on as to his being a good,fair or bad housemate.
For me his discussion with Ben as to the UK getting involved in foreign countries,his view that people should only be able to comment on such things if they were an MP or had been in the forces,showed Steve to have some odd and bigoted views,when he said if a child of his ever went to prison,that he wouldn't visit them left me stunned,what a pretentious and uncompromising person. He knows he snores and annoys many housemates with it but he does nothing about it,how very selfish,then he castigates Ben for not as he sees it being a team player,so he nominates Ben week after week for that,rediculous as Ben has done many tasks but okay he can be a bit non conformist and is always upfront about it, so Steve has no respect for honesty in people either.
However the reason people are now against Steve is because as Ben pointed out TO STEVE,since the new girls especially Rachel had come in the house Steve was like dog in heat.It is the combination of those few things,and I could have listed many more, that will likely stop the public wanting Steve to win, not his disabilities. The thing for me is that when he wants a laugh,he expects everyone to want to too, but when he cannot be bothered and the other housemates are having fun, being younger, he moans and groans and tells them to stop,like a grumpy old neighbour who always tries to spoil others fun.That is the reason he is more disliked and his really sick flirting with Keeley and Rachel when he knows his wife and kids could be watching makes me feel really sick indeed,he's a dirty old man and a very bad housemate indeed who gets more boring and irrelevant as the days pass.
Nothing to do with his disabilities,he is just not a nice man at all and thats starting to show more and more.

Is Steve not allowed strong opinions - especially on something as personal as the army and it's presence in other countries! We are all entitled to opinions on that, but I guess that Steve felt that some members of the general public often don't know enough about what is going on to have an informed opinion! It is clearly an emotive subject for him - and he over-reacted - we all do it - doesn't mean he has extreme, intolerant views. Maybe you over-react in your description of him based on that incident! No-one is saying he is perfect, but it seems some expect him to be!

As for the snoring - what do you propose he does about that - it is not a conscious action that he can control! And most of what you say about him moaning could be applied to any of the other hms at various times - they all love a good moan!

I think that your description of him as a 'dirty old man' speaks volumes about your view of his age in relation to his actions. He is 41 that is not old - he is not dead below the waste - and she is not exactly young at 31! He was flattered by her attentions and was trying to join in more and have a bit of fun! Whether he got a bit carried away and OTT in that, perhaps not realising how a predominantly young audience might perceive that, is down to personal opinion - but to call him a perv is pretty OTT in my opinion!

What is questionable - is Keeley's motives. She has the advantage of knowing how the hms are perceived outside and did seem to make a beeline for Steve - one has to ask why! She is not a silly young girl, but a mature business woman! She was constantly paying him attention and cuddling up to him - the fact that you don't once question her motives - makes me question your judgement!

Originally Posted by parmnion

did you really say steve is using his disability for his own ends..jesus aged christ, what a dimwit.

Of course. He is so lucky having no legs if it means he gets to the last week of a reality tv show...

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by LKSmith2

Of course. He is so lucky having no legs if it means he gets to the last week of a reality tv show...

that is NOT him using them though, thats the voters.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by LKSmith2

Of course. He is so lucky having no legs if it means he gets to the last week of a reality tv show...

I wouldn't be surprised if you actually believe that - some people, it seems, are really so obsessed by reality tv shows - they have a warped perspective of their importance and cannot separate them from real life! Ahhh!

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I wouldn't be surprised if you actually believe that - some people, it seems, are really so obsessed by reality tv shows - they have a warped perspective of their importance and cannot separate them from real life! Ahhh!

Don't worry it was sarcasm (Obviously didn't come across very well) I actually agree with what you have been saying in this thread

[Stu]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

This has been a common view held by parents who love their children enough to discipline them (as in teach lessons, guide).

This used to be understood as a GOOD POSITION and the sign of a good parenting.
This was (and still is by some) considered an admirable and noble and 'righteous' thing to do.

The idea here is that he is informing his children that IF they are in the wrong, get arrested then they will have to pay the consequences in full.
Its sometimes called 'tough love'.

Not only did parents NOT visit (and forget helping) their children in jail,
but,
even inmates considered it 'morally wrong' to allow their parents to visit as they were ashamed to put the parents in that position and just have them be seen in prison for what they (the child) had done.

To really give you the idea here - when my Dad was arrested (as a younger lad) my Grandfather got a call from the police.
"We have your boy here.. caught doing some crimes.. what would you like us to do with him?"
My Grandfather sternly instructed them to hold him accountable to the MAXIMUM the law would allow and to lock him up for as long as they could.
To this day my father is still thankful for that 'tough love' and respected his father for it.

So that from Steve is one of the reasons I would consider voting for him to win BB11.

I much rather the whole compassion and forgiveness thing myself, rather than hackneyed ye olde parenting tactics that never brought on much positives. But whatever floats your boat.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by LKSmith2

Don't worry it was sarcasm (Obviously didn't come across very well) I actually agree with what you have been saying in this thread

[Stu]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Is Steve not allowed strong opinions - especially on something as personal as the army and it's presence in other countries! We are all entitled to opinions on that, but I guess that Steve felt that some members of the general public often don't know enough about what is going on to have an informed opinion! It is clearly an emotive subject for him - and he over-reacted - we all do it - doesn't mean he has extreme, intolerant views. Maybe you over-react in your description of him based on that incident! No-one is saying he is perfect, but it seems some expect him to be!

As for the snoring - what do you propose he does about that - it is not a conscious action that he can control! And most of what you say about him moaning could be applied to any of the other hms at various times - they all love a good moan!

I think that your description of him as a 'dirty old man' speaks volumes about your view of his age in relation to his actions. He is 41 that is not old - he is not dead below the waste - and she is not exactly young at 31! He was flattered by her attentions and was trying to join in more and have a bit of fun! Whether he got a bit carried away and OTT in that, perhaps not realising how a predominantly young audience might perceive that, is down to personal opinion - but to call him a perv is pretty OTT in my opinion!

What is questionable - is Keeley's motives. She has the advantage of knowing how the hms are perceived outside and did seem to make a beeline for Steve - one has to ask why! She is not a silly young girl, but a mature business woman! She was constantly paying him attention and cuddling up to him - the fact that you don't once question her motives - makes me question your judgement!

Talk about a subconcious submission to his disability. Marcus was the biggest perv on the planet last year, right?

Take away a leg and an eye and things are different.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Stu

Talk about a subconcious submission to his disability. Marcus was the biggest perv on the planet last year, right?

Take away a leg and an eye and things are different.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Stu

Talk about a subconcious submission to his disability. Marcus was the biggest perv on the planet last year, right?

Take away a leg and an eye and things are different.

Not at all - I think the situations are very different! I believe I pointed out the differences, in my opinion, in a previous thread!

Two legs actually!

[Stu]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Not at all - I think the situations are very different! I believe I pointed out the differences, in my opinion, in a previous thread!

Two legs actually!

I must have missed that tour de force. Most of your posts tend to look the same.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Stu

I must have missed that tour de force. Most of your posts tend to look the same.

Ironic - always thought the same of yours!

[InOne]

Steve is messing up his chances day by day anyway. Go Keeley!

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Stu

I much rather the whole compassion and forgiveness thing myself, rather than hackneyed ye olde parenting tactics that never brought on much positives. But whatever floats your boat.

Steve might argue that the real compassion is in letting the child pay the harshest penalty.
The child might say that it is out of compassion for their parents they do NOT want them visiting them.

Forgiveness. If the child is remorseful then you certainly can forgive them for whatever the crime but that is not the same thing as having them pay the debts and consequences.
Two different things.

As for your hackneyed new parenting ideas I don't think there is any debate on this anymore when you only need to walk around the UK as see what totally disrespectful criminally-minded little pukes run rampant vandalizing and spitting,
and,
Yes, the mentality of these scallies and chavs is straight out of being deprived of any sort of discipline or understanding there are real consequences.

I suggest that your tactics are uncaring, unloving and show no compassion for victims.
Steve is more advanced than you on this one.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Stu

I much rather the whole compassion and forgiveness thing myself, rather than hackneyed ye olde parenting tactics that never brought on much positives. But whatever floats your boat.

I don't see much compassion and forgiveness on this site - just extremely harsh judgements!