[Niamh.]

I won't even dignify your post with a reply El Proximo

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

yes bring back the days of empire eh? you must be from Cannot Understand Nothing Told, or C.U.N.T

2/10 for effort, but fails since it has no intrinsic meaning or relevance

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by angus58

I'm not "claiming" anything - the statistics are well documented and there for anyone to see, if they actually want the truth and not their own fantasies. You do know how to google don't you?

But at least in this post, I can spot some semblance of an argument emerging from your ramblings- the fact that our armed forces are deployed to fight oppressive regimes in other parts of the world and thereby bring peace and liberty to those countries, when in fact they should be in existence to merely defend our own borders?

Is that your grievance? There is already a thread on this in "Serious Debates" about whether Britain should be the policeman of the world, and there is not a lot of consensus for turning a blind eye and ignoring the plight of people living under cruel dictatorships.

I repeat, don't blame the servicemen and women, blame the politicians, and make your feelings known via the ballot box, since Britain is still a democracy, last time I looked.

agreed, its those greedy corrupt politicians, the army are only following orders, just like hitlers gasmen were following orders, so who can blame them right?

the same can be said for the immigration policy, dont blame the immigrants blame the politicians, go to the ballot box

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

here you go small snippet.

At roughly 7pm (GMT) on Wednesday 24th May 1999, NATO forces in the Mediterranean and Europe launched a sustained bombing strike against Yugoslav military targets in retaliation for the Yugoslavian refusal to abide by agreements made the previous year over Kosovo and to stop repression by military force of the Kosovo people, which had already caused thousands of casualties RAF Harriers of No.1 Squadron and Tristar tankers operating from Italian airfields took part in the campaign,

Yes I know they did, I was painting targets at the time. You will notice the words I have highlighted in your C&P - "bombing strike against Yugoslav military targets"

The harrier was the GR7, it carries max payload of 8000 lbs that would also include its ECM pods, Fuel tanks for the trips, actual bombs carried would have been two x 500lbs or a single centre line 1000lb. Hardly enough for carpet bombing.

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Yes I know they did, I was painting targets at the time. You will notice the words I have highlighted in your C&P - "bombing strike against Yugoslav military targets"

The harrier was the GR7, it carries max payload of 8000 lbs that would also include its ECM pods, Fuel tanks for the trips, actual bombs carried would have been two x 500lbs or a single centre line 1000lb. Hardly enough for carpet bombing.

try googling landmineaction dot org resources, it gives you the ingo you need there to get up to speed sonny. links dont seem to work here.

[BB_Eye]

I think part of the reason the UK is more politically correct and multicultural than the rest of Europe is because our indigenous culture and history is so dull. Britain was always better known for its innovations in the natural sciences than the arts, where the French, Germans, Dutch and Italians outclass us to the point of being embarrassing.

Part of the problem is that nationalism and patriotism as we understand it today originated in the 19th century... a time when folk art and nationalist music of Wagner, Chopin and Tchaikovsky was celebrated. Obviously Germans are not so proud of their country (despite their rich heritage) because of the Third Reich, but it is easy to understand why they had so much to be proud of before all of that.

All that Britain represented in the 19th century was the chest-beating pomp of Lord Nelson, Queen Victoria and the British Empire. We even had to make up our own folk stories like the legend of King Arthur, because our medieval literary heritage was so barren. Britain suffered a similar predicament to many other anglophone countries. Its traditions lie in the valuing enterprise over creativity and pragmatism over idealism. As a result, Britain is culturally impoverished and doomed to forever suffer an inferiority complex towards its neighbours.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

try googling landmineaction dot org resources, it gives you the ingo you need there to get up to speed sonny. links dont seem to work here.

PMSL I dont need to google anything, and I am probably a little older than you.

[Lewis.]

Originally Posted by Shaun

No. Try living in Saudi Arabia, Iran, North Korea, Zimbabwe...

This. We've got it good over here. We live in a democracy where people can choose what they want to happen. Yes, the government have got quite a few things wrong over time, but i'd rather be paying 2p more for my my packet of polo's than be hunted and killed for moaning about it. Consider yourself lucky.

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by Shasown

PMSL I dont need to google anything, and I am probably a little older than you.

i am sure you dont, never let the truth get in the way of a good fairytale, seems to be your motto.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

i am sure you dont, never let the truth get in the way of a good fairytale, seems to be your motto.

Is that the best you can come up with?

Where in any of your wiki quotes does it say we caused thousands of casualties in Kosovo by offensive air? In fact wasnt there praise of the 6 aircraft from 1(F) squadron operating out of Gioia del Colle because of the accuracy of the strikes against Serb military positions?

Incidentally on the raids of the 24th, only one RAF dropped ordnance, the rest of the aircraft returned to Italy still fully loaded. That was to prevent hitting civvy targets by mistake. Different story on the 25th and subsequent raids.

[shaz20]

Can I ask why this is posted in a BB forum? Surely there are political forums in which you can discuss this, I dont think the Big brother tv programme can address your issues.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I won't even dignify your post with a reply El Proximo

Speaking English was all the dignifying I could ask for.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

I think part of the reason the UK is more politically correct and multicultural than the rest of Europe is because our indigenous culture and history is so dull. Britain was always better known for its innovations in the natural sciences than the arts, where the French, Germans, Dutch and Italians outclass us to the point of being embarrassing.

Part of the problem is that nationalism and patriotism as we understand it today originated in the 19th century... a time when folk art and nationalist music of Wagner, Chopin and Tchaikovsky was celebrated. Obviously Germans are not so proud of their country (despite their rich heritage) because of the Third Reich, but it is easy to understand why they had so much to be proud of before all of that.

All that Britain represented in the 19th century was the chest-beating pomp of Lord Nelson, Queen Victoria and the British Empire. We even had to make up our own folk stories like the legend of King Arthur, because our medieval literary heritage was so barren. Britain suffered a similar predicament to many other anglophone countries. Its traditions lie in the valuing enterprise over creativity and pragmatism over idealism. As a result, Britain is culturally impoverished and doomed to forever suffer an inferiority complex towards its neighbours.

I've seldom read such tosh - Britain has a rich and magnificent history and has contributed greatly to the world in terms of literature, art, engineering, technology, exploration, science, medicine, invention etc etc.

We are such a fractured society that there is no national cohesion or common purpose any more, and I doubt we will ever again see the kind of unity and love of country that helped us stand alone for two years during WW2.

As a Brit, far from suffering from an inferiority complex, I am extremely proud of our heritage and contribution to the world, and grateful to the servicemen who died in order to keep this country safe from invasion and occupation.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by shaz20

Can I ask why this is posted in a BB forum? Surely there are political forums in which you can discuss this, I dont think the Big brother tv programme can address your issues.

Precisely what I queried in my first post on this thread - where are the mods? They should have moved this to Serious Debates by now.

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

yes thank god britain was the best of the worst invaders. hardly a pat on the back of endorsements there. That we 'britain' took so much and gave back so little, reveals it all. pretty disgusting really.

Er....i think you need to get a grip.

I would like to point out, to the less fortunate on here who seem to have missed out on an education, that Britain was invaded long before it started invading others.
I refuse to apologise because my ancestors were better at kicking arse than others....I WASNT AROUND BACK THEN. And when the Italians, French, Germans, Scandinavians etc apologise for invading Britain....then a serious dialogue may be achieved. Until then i'll let their ancient conquests go as i can understand that it has nothing to do with the modern day incumbents of those countries.

As for our modern invasions....correct me if im wrong, but Iraq was invaded by a UN backed force initially due to Iraq illegally invading a sovereign country, Kuwait. The subsequent invasion was after successive attempts to bring the Iraqi regime back to the rule of international law and not mass murder Kurds, Shiites etc.
And the Afghan invasion was perhaps due in main to a little event that happened in NY 09.11.2001.

100% behind both current wars.

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

the army is there to defend britain isant it, now correct me if i am wrong but i cannot remember iraq invading britain. thats what the ministry of defense is isant it, to defend britain, otherwise it would be called the ministry of attack.
No Iraq invaded Kuwait..OVER OIL.. and we under a coalition backed by the UN kicked them out and then removed the regime once it had murdered a mass of Kurds & Shiites and made it blindingly obvious it was hell bent on more atrocities.

i dont have to whip anything up, we have bombed the crap out of kosovo, iraq and afghanistan havant we?
I think you will find we bombed Serbia as they were slaughtering ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. You really need to educate yourself before spouting garbage.

of course we supply arms to 3rd world dictators such as mugabe in the past for example, why would that be einstein?

100% agree bad policy....but if we didnt arm them and try to influence their internal policies, then some other dickwad would step in.

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Whether you gave them good infrastructure or not does not justify taking a country that doesn't want to be taken, with all due respect. I'm sure if ye still had control of the republic of Ireland our roads would be better too but I'd rather be Irish tbh.

Very noble Niam, but unfortunately even the Irish are not exempt from a little bit of holiday invading themselves....The Scots were an Irish tribe that invaded "Pictland" and did a bit of re-educating the local populace to the Scots way of thinking. Hence you now have Scotland and Scots, and the Picts have been assimilated (or worse).

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

At roughly 7pm (GMT) on Wednesday 24th May 1999, NATO forces in the Mediterranean and Europe launched a sustained bombing strike against Yugoslav military targets in retaliation for the Yugoslavian refusal to abide by agreements made the previous year over Kosovo and to stop repression by military force of the Kosovo people, which had already caused thousands of casualties RAF Harriers of No.1 Squadron and Tristar tankers operating from Italian airfields took part in the campaign,

Ah just seen this....so you are familiar with the historical event then?

So if as you say....we bombed certain Serbian military targets due to the Serbian refusal to abide by agreements made the previous year over Kosovo and to stop repression by military force of the Kosovo people, which had already caused thousands of casualties....how the hell can you say we bombed Kosovo???? And i take it millions were not killed here?

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by StGeorge

Very noble Niam, but unfortunately even the Irish are not exempt from a little bit of holiday invading themselves....The Scots were an Irish tribe that invaded "Pictland" and did a bit of re-educating the local populace to the Scots way of thinking. Hence you now have Scotland and Scots, and the Picts have been assimilated (or worse).

Niamh has conveniently forgotten that while the British were busing making the Empire and invading all those poor countries, Irishmen joined up locally raised regiments of the British Army voluntarily. Hence such famous and historic names Royal Irish Dragoon Guards, 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars,
Irish Guards. Queen's Royal Irish Hussars, Royal Irish Artillery, Royal Irish Lancers, Royal Irish Rangers, Connaught Rangers, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers,
Prince of Wales's Leinster Regiment, North Irish Horse, Royal Dublin Fusiliers
Royal Irish Fusiliers, Royal Irish Regiment (1684-1922) Royal Ulster Rifles,
Royal Munster Fusiliers, South Irish Horse.

[crit]

Originally Posted by StGeorge

Very noble Niam, but unfortunately even the Irish are not exempt from a little bit of holiday invading themselves....The Scots were an Irish tribe that invaded "Pictland" and did a bit of re-educating the local populace to the Scots way of thinking. Hence you now have Scotland and Scots, and the Picts have been assimilated (or worse).

Dont forget the Irish invasions of Wales and how the Irish took the Welsh as slaves. St Patrick himself Welsh was made a slave by the irish.


Slavery is a part of most nations history, nothing to be proud of but nobody can use it as a stick to beat other nations with as it was universal practice for everyone at one time or another.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

We would be British also though and it's not meant disrespectfully but I don't want to be British, just Irish is fine.

I 100% respect that....its a shame though i'm not allowed to be English with my own English parliament and national anthem.

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by crit

Dont forget the Irish invasions of Wales and how the Irish took the Welsh as slaves. St Patrick himself Welsh was made a slave by the irish.


Slavery is a part of most nations history, nothing to be proud of but nobody can use it as a stick to beat other nations with as it was universal practice for everyone at one time or another.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick

I guess this is a good point to add this:

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone"

and

"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by StGeorge

and

"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

Nah people in glass houses shouldnt walk around naked.

[crit]

Originally Posted by StGeorge

I 100% respect that....its a shame though i'm not allowed to be English with my own English parliament and national anthem.

This!

The English are treated like an unimportant underclass. We deserve an English Parliament to deal with English matters, just like the Welsh, N Irish and Scots.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by StGeorge

Very noble Niam, but unfortunately even the Irish are not exempt from a little bit of holiday invading themselves....The Scots were an Irish tribe that invaded "Pictland" and did a bit of re-educating the local populace to the Scots way of thinking. Hence you now have Scotland and Scots, and the Picts have been assimilated (or worse).

Originally Posted by Shasown

Niamh has conveniently forgotten that while the British were busing making the Empire and invading all those poor countries, Irishmen joined up locally raised regiments of the British Army voluntarily. Hence such famous and historic names Royal Irish Dragoon Guards, 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars,
Irish Guards. Queen's Royal Irish Hussars, Royal Irish Artillery, Royal Irish Lancers, Royal Irish Rangers, Connaught Rangers, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers,
Prince of Wales's Leinster Regiment, North Irish Horse, Royal Dublin Fusiliers
Royal Irish Fusiliers, Royal Irish Regiment (1684-1922) Royal Ulster Rifles,
Royal Munster Fusiliers, South Irish Horse.

Originally Posted by crit

Dont forget the Irish invasions of Wales and how the Irish took the Welsh as slaves. St Patrick himself Welsh was made a slave by the irish.


Slavery is a part of most nations history, nothing to be proud of but nobody can use it as a stick to beat other nations with as it was universal practice for everyone at one time or another.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick

Originally Posted by StGeorge

I guess this is a good point to add this:

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone"

and

"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

Touche! I'm obviously not as well up on my history as ye are And I do enjoy reading you're posts. Same can not be said for some other blatantly rude and ignorant posters (one in particular) who shall remain nameless!!!