[Livia]

Originally Posted by toby843

Ok, I didn't really want to get into a big religous debate as I am not religous myself but here goes:

•Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1
•Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
•1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
•Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."


I think that just about covers the bible thing. Anyway, as I said, I'm not religous so I am not suggesting anything about how we live our lives.

I'm simply saying, Dave has his beliefs and he is entitled to them, and, as a christian country, we should not hold them against him.

You're right, there are some outrageous parts to the bible, hence the fact I am not religous, but if our country was founded in Islam, Buddhism, Sikhism, Shintoism etc etc. . we would find ourselves living in an altogether different society, wouldn't you agree, and in some ways, nowhere near as free as we are to live our lives.

So the point I'm making is as a society we feel the need to pick holes in beliefs yet moan and argue when we feel we are not being treated fairly. We seem to have inherited an "I owe you nothing but you owe me everything" culture, almost americanist in its reliance on blame culture and compensation, wouldn't you agree?

I'm pretty sure that if you were to take a snap shot of societies values 60 years ago and applied them to todays public, life would be a much smoother affair.

If you aren't religious, I'm an confused why you're arguing so hard in support of a couple of passages of a book you don't consider God's Word.

So you've given me two Old Testament mentions, both Leviticus (read the rest of it and see the all the other things you're not allowed to do) and two New Testament passages. You'll have undoubtedly noticed that it also says drunkards shall not enter the kingdom of Heaven, so presumably Andrew is out, after last night's performance. Oh, and you can be stoned to death for working on the Sabbath. And working on the Sabbath includes going shopping, cooking and even answering the telephone. So, are you going to embrace the bit that says homosexuality is an abomination, but ignore all the other "abominations" because you consider them to be archaic?

Sixty years ago people were sent to prison for being homosexual. Society has moved on.

When the Bible was written the world was a very different place. The bits about homosexuality are as outdated as the bits about being allowed to own slaves.

Incidentally, also in Leviticus [21.20] it states that you may not approach God's alter if you have a defect of sight. Our Rabbi wears glasses. Clearly he thinks there are bits that are past their sell-by date too.