[Ammi]

I'm sure Vanessa will be voted out before Ulrika - thats a given but I was quite interested watching the HL show last night at the two different approaches in handling the 'high maintenance' Nikki.

Ulrika - she is very intolerant of Nikki and cant conceal her impatience any time Nikki opens her mouth. I cant say that Nikki would be an easy person to be around and to that extent I don't blame Ulrika - but as a mum and a lady of a little more maturity she must know that some situations and people have to be 'handled'. When she dismisses Nikki (as in the Majorette's task) its not that she doesn't have a point, but the way she deals with things just causes an atmosphere and bad feeling for the whole house, not just Nikki.

Vanessa - She tolerates Nikki in a way that she humours the 'child' as it is obvious Nikki acts very childish in situations, but her way of dealing with the bed thing i.e. I dont want to change but of course if you go on long enough and wear me down I will change - much better surely. She didn't let Nikki get her way but she did it in a way that did'nt make it an issue.

I find this very interesting because imo its where Ulrika loses my respect - I think she has good points on people and situations a lot of the time but I'm not sure she goes about it the right way and ends up giving me the impression that 'my way is always the right way and the only way - end of)

Thoughts?

[HBB1508]

I have to admit I admired the way Vanessa handled Nikki - I would have slapped her one for going on over a bloody bed - what is wrong with the girl???

[Claymores]

I think Ulrikkkkkkaaa is infuriated because she knows she can't actually send the naughty child to the naughty step in this situation as any normal parent would do, or indeed as Supernanny would recommend. It's a situation C4's Supernanny would find intolerable - the naughty child is allowed to continue with her behaviours with no sanctions possible.

Vanessa hasn't had to tolerate the naughty child for as long and is there for a purpose - to get back on TV (presumably), so is ignoring/placating the naughty child insofar as is possible to avoid any conflict.

[smudgie]

As a mother of "kids" of similar age, I would go down the Ulrika route.
She is a grown woman for heavens sake, why pander to her tantrums.
I never pandered to my kids tantrums when toddlers, this is the way they grow out of them. You ignore them.
As to Vanesse having more patience, she has only spent 5 minutes with Nikki so far, a couple more days of her immature behaviour might well change her attitude.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by HBB1508

I have to admit I admired the way Vanessa handled Nikki - I would have slapped her one for going on over a bloody bed - what is wrong with the girl???

I don't condone Nikki's behaviour and don;t think for one minute she wanted to change beds for Vanessa's sake, but more she wanted Vanessa's bed and was whining on and on till she got her way - as a child or a spoilt person would do - but I agree, as a mum myself and I work with young children - Vanessa's approach was imo correct and effective

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by rhino

I don't condone Nikki's behaviour and don;t think for one minute she wanted to change beds for Vanessa's sake, but more she wanted Vanessa's bed and was whining on and on till she got her way - as a child or a spoilt person would do - but I agree, as a mum myself and I work with young children - Vanessa's approach was imo correct and effective

We're using the euphamism 'naughty child' (well I was anyway!), but this is a grown woman. You can't condone or support Vannessa's approach just because you're a mum and work with young children and therefore make the comparison. As said above, Vannessa is there for her own selfish ends and I'm sure would run a mile to avoid a conflict, without bending over backwards which would be disapproved of too by viewers.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Claymores

I think Ulrikkkkkkaaa is infuriated because she knows she can't actually send the naughty child to the naughty step in this situation as any normal parent would do, or indeed as Supernanny would recommend. It's a situation C4's Supernanny would find intolerable - the naughty child is allowed to continue with her behaviours with no sanctions possible.

Vanessa hasn't had to tolerate the naughty child for as long and is there for a purpose - to get back on TV (presumably), so is ignoring/placating the naughty child insofar as is possible to avoid any conflict.

Comparing the situation with Supernanny - yes she has the naughty step and uses it, but she also uses tolerance and patience as well and tries to understand the child and the most effective way of dealing with them.

I'm not saying that Ulrika's approach wouldn't be appropriate in some situations, but not always as Vanessa proved.

I work with young children (like Nikki) who over react or dramatise and have tantrums but they are not 'bad' its just the way they react. Most of the time you don't give them their way, but you turn it round on them in a jokey way so they realise its silly and it is diffused in a way that more positive for everyone.

In Supernanny the naughty step is used for children who are rude, ignore parents instruction, hurt other children etc - this is bad unacceptable and is sanctioned accordingly - Nikki wasn't being 'bad' mean or horrible etc - just silly childish and whining

[Claymores]

OK I defer to you - placating is the best, eh. That's sorted Nikki out over 24 years (guessed time)

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Claymores

OK I defer to you - placating is the best, eh. That's sorted Nikki out over 24 years (guessed time)

lol - I dont want to be deferred to. I agree with you that Nikki hasn't been 'sorted' in 24 years but it doesn't help that she became famous for her tantrums and thinks thats what most of us want to see. As I said I think in some situations Ulrika's approach is appropriate and you cant always placate but sometimes the 'handling' thing is best - not always, just sometimes. Ulrika has such intolerance and I dont think likes Nikki at all and that doesnt always work either.
Nikki is not my fave and can be very irritating and spoilt but I do think she had a point in the Majorettes task and I think Ulrika didn't consider her at all just because she doesn't like her

[Claymores]

On reflection my initial analogy was a wrong one.........I dislike Nikki so was likening her to a naughty child which is invalid.

The treatment of adults with behavioural problems is not the same as the treatment of kindergarden children who are learning about the world. Hence mental health workers do not suddenly transfer to become Nursery carers and vice-versa. I made a bad analogy.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Claymores

On reflection my initial analogy was a wrong one.........I dislike Nikki so was likening her to a naughty child which is invalid.

The treatment of adults with behavioural problems is not the same as the treatment of kindergarden children who are learning about the world. Hence mental health workers do not suddenly transfer to become Nursery carers and vice-versa. I made a bad analogy.

Well I guess we'll wait and see if the beds are changed because the thing that Vanessa did wrong was to say she would give in if Nikki whinged enough. If they stay where they are and Nikki just drops it Vanessa was quite clever - if not then Ulrika's way is right

[Niamh.]

You are forgetting one very important detail here NIKKI IS AN ADULT!!! I'm a mother as well and I wouldn't treat a grown woman behaving like a child the same as I would a child.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

You are forgetting one very important detail here NIKKI IS AN ADULT!!! I'm a mother as well and I wouldn't treat a grown woman behaving like a child the same as I would a child.

Yes she is an adult and as Claymore has pointed out perhaps any analogy with children is not apprpriate. Its easy to think of Nikki as a child because everything about her is childlike. I agree sometimes be direct like Ulrika - I dont think everyone should pander to Nikki all the time - God forbid, what a nightmare she would be - but sometimes a situation calls for a different approach and I was interested in how effective each one seemed to be

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by rhino

Well I guess we'll wait and see if the beds are changed because the thing that Vanessa did wrong was to say she would give in if Nikki whinged enough. If they stay where they are and Nikki just drops it Vanessa was quite clever - if not then Ulrika's way is right

Still believe you're treating this as the real world, not a short-term contract. Vanessa did what she did to avoid conflict and hope she comes out of it looking good for her future employment prospects. Don't actually think Ulrikkkka needs or is lexpecting much future employment from her short-term contract - she's there for the fee and is ired by this baby adult with behavioural problems.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by rhino

Yes she is an adult and as Claymore has pointed out perhaps any analogy with children is not apprpriate. Its easy to think of Nikki as a child because everything about her is childlike. I agree sometimes be direct like Ulrika - I dont think everyone should pander to Nikki all the time - God forbid, what a nightmare she would be - but sometimes a situation calls for a different approach and I was interested in how effective each one seemed to be

Imo I reckon Nikki needs someone to tell her grow the hell up!

[Livia]

I liked the way Vanessa pointed out to Nikki that she knew exactly what she was doing, and that she wasn't falling for it. I don't think many people do that, and I don't think Nikki has heard the word "no" in her life often enough.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Claymores

Still believe you're treating this as the real world, not a short-term contract. Vanessa did what she did to avoid conflict and hope she comes out of it looking good for her future employment prospects. Don't actually think Ulrikkkka needs or is lexpecting much future employment from her short-term contract - she's there for the fee and is ired by this baby adult with behavioural problems.

No No I'm quite aware that Ulrika and Nikki having all sorts of fall out would be much better viewing and I for one would much rather see this in the BB house from an entertainment perspective.

I think we both made the wrong analogy with children because for obvious reasons it is so easy to view Nikki as a child. I'm not 'treating' it as the real world just opening a discussion on views, which will obviously differ but thats the beauty of it, if we all agreed or saw things the same we couldnt have these forums

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Livia

I liked the way Vanessa pointed out to Nikki that she knew exactly what she was doing, and that she wasn't falling for it. I don't think many people do that, and I don't think Nikki has heard the word "no" in her life often enough.

Exactly - we can say no but we can say it sweetly - its still no but not in a nasty way

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by rhino

Exactly - we can say no but we can say it sweetly - its still no but not in a nasty way

Much as we're close to agreeing quite a lot on this, still think we've gotta figure-in the time factor. I reckon I could put up with and placate/deal with Nikki in a nice way for a few days - after a week I'd lose my rag, just as Eureka has (except, being a male I'd probably rage rather than just pull faces

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Claymores

Much as we're close to agreeing quite a lot on this, still think we've gotta figure-in the time factor. I reckon I could put up with and placate/deal with Nikki in a nice way for a few days - after a week I'd lose my rag, just as Eureka has (except, being a male I'd probably rage rather than just pull faces

very true Ian. That kind of behaviour is silly and unacceptable from an adult and the others shouldn't be expected to deal with her.

[Shiner]

Originally Posted by claymores

still believe you're treating this as the real world, not a short-term contract. Vanessa did what she did to avoid conflict and hope she comes out of it looking good for her future employment prospects. Don't actually think ulrikkkka needs or is lexpecting much future employment from her short-term contract - she's there for the fee and is ired by this baby adult with behavioural problems.

+1000000