[Omen]

Originally Posted by lostalex

so basically yur saying you agree that al Queada planned and executed the attacks, but that the owners of the buildings just finished them off?

Instead of warning people about the attacks, evacuating the buildings to make sure no human lives were lost, instead of informing the CIA or FBI, they instead chose to let it happen, and rig the whole thing with explosives???

hmmmm. sounds unlikely to me.

Why do you think such horrible things about people that you have no reason to think such horrible things about?

Because they are RICH men it MUST mean they are capable of doing such things?? that is basically what yur saying.

I don't buy it.

That's pretty much the substance of this hypothesis. I don't say I believe it, just trying to flesh out the bones of it and see where we are.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Omen

That's pretty much the substance of this hypothesis. I don't say I believe it, just trying to flesh out the bones of it and see where we are.

Ah so we are playing a game of lets pretend in that we ignore the reality and practicalities of such a plan and just pretend its possible.

Okay then to preplant the explosives could be done, what couldnt be guaranteed is what the impact of the aircraft would do. Even empty aircraft fuel tanks contain highly flammable fuel vapours which may cause a fire, destroying part or all of the explosives.

Too many things could go wrong within your plan. Would a businessman make such plans on the assumption that the events that did occur would have occurred.

It would only take one part of the plan to go wrong and the whole conspiracy is laid bare to the world.

Even then would someone knowingly blow the buildings when they were still full of people? Thats mass murder.

Why place explosives when the risk of discovery is high, even if the buildings didnt collapse he still picks up the insurance payoff, because of the dangerous state they were in. They would have been deemed to be unusable, unsafe till they were demolished and rebuilt.

[Omen]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Ah so we are playing a game of lets pretend in that we ignore the reality and practicalities of such a plan and just pretend its possible.

Okay then to preplant the explosives could be done, what couldnt be guaranteed is what the impact of the aircraft would do. Even empty aircraft fuel tanks contain highly flammable fuel vapours which may cause a fire, destroying part or all of the explosives.

Too many things could go wrong within your plan. Would a businessman make such plans on the assumption that the events that did occur would have occurred.

It would only take one part of the plan to go wrong and the whole conspiracy is laid bare to the world.

Even then would someone knowingly blow the buildings when they were still full of people? Thats mass murder.

Why place explosives when the risk of discovery is high, even if the buildings didnt collapse he still picks up the insurance payoff, because of the dangerous state they were in. They would have been deemed to be unusable, unsafe till they were demolished and rebuilt.

My point is predicated that they would be impossible or near impossible to demolish after. Also, there was the possibility the centre of gravity may have shifted causing the towers to fall on their sides.

The question of mass murder is a doozy alright, but say the timing of the attack was unknown, so maybe there was a 50/50 chance the workers would be at home instead of at work. BUt I concede it is a tough one to answer, but I'm reminded of the Israeli attack on the US naval boats off Israel and how that nearly precipitated a nuclear strike on Cairo, and I wonder what cost is too high if this was indeed a Machaevellian scheme to justify invading Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Omen

My point is predicated that they would be impossible or near impossible to demolish after. Also, there was the possibility the centre of gravity may have shifted causing the towers to fall on their sides.

The question of mass murder is a doozy alright, but say the timing of the attack was unknown, so maybe there was a 50/50 chance the workers would be at home instead of at work. BUt I concede it is a tough one to answer, but I'm reminded of the Israeli attack on the US naval boats off Israel and how that nearly precipitated a nuclear strike on Cairo, and I wonder what cost is too high if this was indeed a Machaevellian scheme to justify invading Afghanistan and Iraq.

Well for starters, knowing a crime is going to be committed and failing to act to prevent it is a crime.

As it was an act of mass murder that was then used as an excuse to invade another country. If you get found out, you are looking at charges of treason and mass murder, Aiding and abetting terrorist actions.

Thats several death penalties itself, do you honestly think those involved in the conspiracy would go for it?

Then you have not only the leaders but also the workmen who positioned and possibly detonated the explosives, you reckon all the people involved in the planning and execution of this could cope with the guilt? I suppose you could say that Silverstein bought everyones silence?

They may have carried out the work but do you suppose that someone in the whole scheme wouldnt have come forward by now?

[Omen]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Well for starters, knowing a crime is going to be committed and failing to act to prevent it is a crime.

As it was an act of mass murder that was then used as an excuse to invade another country. If you get found out, you are looking at charges of treason and mass murder, Aiding and abetting terrorist actions.

Thats several death penalties itself, do you honestly think those involved in the conspiracy would go for it?

Then you have not only the leaders but also the workmen who positioned and possibly detinated the explosives, you reckon all the people involved in the planning and execution of this could cope with the guilt? I suppose you could say that Silverstein bought everyones silence?

They may have carried out the work but do you suppose that someone in the whole scheme wouldnt have come forward by now?

They might all be dead.

As for the rest of your post, aside from whoever was responsible for setting the explosives, the others are guilty of doing nothing. There are reports the intelligence community had wind of what was coming, yet didn't do anything.

Saw "The Special Relationship" on BBC2 the other night. Bit near the end with Clinton advising Blair he doesn't want to get into bed with the new Bush administration, saying (more or less) they play dirty.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Omen

They might all be dead.

As for the rest of your post, aside from whoever was responsible for setting the explosives, the others are guilty of doing nothing. There are reports the intelligence community had wind of what was coming, yet didn't do anything.

Saw "The Special Relationship" on BBC2 the other night. Bit near the end with Clinton advising Blair he doesn't want to get into bed with the new Bush administration, saying (more or less) they play dirty.

The intelligence community had information from unreliable(at that time) sources saying there would be an attack probably hijackings etc.

Because the sources were deemed to be unreliable they werent acted upon correctly. Also the report from a low grade embassy field worker was pretty much put down to being overly cautious.

Yes intelligence assessors kind of screwed up.

As for anyone else aware of the scale of the attack, to know of such a crime and not inform the authorities is a crime, its a form of complicity in the attack and would at least catch an aiding and abetting charge.

Prior knowledge of a crime and failing to inform the relevant authorities is a crime.

As for Bush and Co playing dirty of course they did, look at the way they rigged elections. That doesnt mean they would knowlingly sacrifice thousands of lives in a conspiracy which could not only bring down their own administration but would also sully Americas reputation throughout its allies as well as the rest of the world.

[Omen]

Originally Posted by Shasown

The intelligence community had information from unreliable(at that time) sources saying there would be an attack probably hijackings etc.

Because the sources were deemed to be unreliable they werent acted upon correctly. Also the report from a low grade embassy field worker was pretty much put down to being overly cautious.

Yes intelligence assessors kind of screwed up.

As for anyone else aware of the scale of the attack, to know of such a crime and not inform the authorities is a crime, its a form of complicity in the attack and would at least catch an aiding and abetting charge.

Prior knowledge of a crime and failing to inform the relevant authorities is a crime.

As for Bush and Co playing dirty of course they did, look at the way they rigged elections. That doesnt mean they would knowlingly sacrifice thousands of lives in a conspiracy which could not only bring down their own administration but would also sully Americas reputation throughout its allies as well as the rest of the world.

OK, let's assume the inelligence screwed up. What about the trade in airline stocks? Is that a fallacy? What about Larry Silverstein buying a 99 year lease, closing the deal in July of 2001? He invested $14m only in a $3.5b deal and made c.$500m in the insurance payout. FDNY officers said it looked like a controlled demolition? What about the political capital, the excuse to invade Afghanistan and Iraq?

There is a body of circumstantial evidence there.

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”. Adolf Hitler

This event was the Pearl Harbour of the 21st century. There's another conspiracy theory, that Roosevelt knew it was coming and let it happen.