[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by Barbie

I understand some want to adopt kids but from the kids point of view is it not better to have a male and female role model and a bit of dare i say it "normality" in their home life?
When i say normality i mean have a mum and a dad, they have been through care or whatever and schools tough as it is, let alone when you have 2 dads instead of a mum and a dad

But Jesus had two dads.

[Niall]

Why can't gay couples adopt? I think its ridiculous to say we can't. I've seen several TV shows where they document the lives of kids living with 2 mums/dads and they grow up absolutely normal. Imo it doesn't matter whether you have 2 men or women for parents. Its how they care for you and whether they love you that matters. Not any of that 'its unnatural' sh!t. If you can't handle it, leave the country. Thats my opinion.

[Omen]

You make a thread about gay, bullying or racism, and it goes on and on and on and on and on.......

[Angus]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

Were they the soft parents or the strict ones?

This episode was on the other night and they were brilliant parents. They had five other foster children, and operated a zero tolerance approach, laying down the boundaries of what was and was not acceptable, yet were also extremely kind, supportive and approachable. Some people are just intuitive and instinctive parents irrespective of gender.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by angus58

This episode was on the other night and they were brilliant parents. They had five other foster children, and operated a zero tolerance approach, laying down the boundaries of what was and was not acceptable, yet were also extremely kind, supportive and approachable. Some people are just intuitive and instinctive parents irrespective of gender.

I watched the Barbados episode the other night and am becoming slightly addicted to it. My main gripe about the show though is that the pep talks and behavioural turnaround of the unruly teens seemed kind of rehearsed and staged, especially considering how vile they were in the 45 minutes leading up to it. The 17 year old girl in that episode actually expected her mum to buy champagne for her, so seeing her change within the space of a week was a little bit hard to take in.

As bad as these teens are, I wish the parents would acknowledge their own apathy in bringing them up. Doesn't it just show a lack of interest in the welfare of their own kid when they let them do whatever they please? Spoiling a kid is a form of neglect as far as I see it.

[Livia]

Being a good parent has nothing to do with sexuality. Look at the kids who are abused and even murdered in a household where there are a male and a female in the house. If you really feel you want to do it and you can provide a stable, loving home for a kid who might otherwise live their whole childhood in care, who the hell cares what you do in the privacy of your own bedroom?

[Z]

Is it just me that thinks gay couples should only be allowed to adopt children who are old enough to decide if they'd be happy to live with a gay couple as parents? A baby/toddler/young child could well grow up to hate their adoptive parents because it wasn't their decision to live with them; that is no reflection on what the gay couple are like as people, but the issue being with the concept of gay parents. I don't know, I think it's unfair to deny people that basic wish of having a family of their own, but I think gay couples should be adopting teenagers, not young children... I don't really know how best to express my view, but that's basically it!

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

no because kids are a pain in the arse

pugs >>>> kids

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Zee

Is it just me that thinks gay couples should only be allowed to adopt children who are old enough to decide if they'd be happy to live with a gay couple as parents? A baby/toddler/young child could well grow up to hate their adoptive parents because it wasn't their decision to live with them; that is no reflection on what the gay couple are like as people, but the issue being with the concept of gay parents. I don't know, I think it's unfair to deny people that basic wish of having a family of their own, but I think gay couples should be adopting teenagers, not young children... I don't really know how best to express my view, but that's basically it!

Then surely you'd have to say that no kids can be adopted by people who follow a certain religion unless they are old enough to decide that they are happy to be brought up with that dogma. Should Jehovah's Witness couples be allowed to adopt because they may refuse that child a life-saving blood transfusion, organ transplant or surgery because their religion dictates? Where is the line going to be drawn? Who is going to decide what's "normal" and who is "good enough"?

[Z]

Originally Posted by Livia

Then surely you'd have to say that no kids can be adopted by people who follow a certain religion unless they are old enough to decide that they are happy to be brought up with that dogma. Should Jehovah's Witness couples be allowed to adopt because they may refuse that child a life-saving blood transfusion, organ transplant or surgery because their religion dictates? Where is the line going to be drawn? Who is going to decide what's "normal" and who is "good enough"?

That's exactly my view; but it's never going to be a realistic aim. My personal opinion is just that, something that I can think but nothing will ever come of. There is a difference between religion and sexuality though; religion is a choice, sexuality is not. A child raised by a gay couple isn't going to be a homosexual; but the social stigma that being known as the child of a gay couple should be a decision left in the hands of the adopted child... obviously it is the decision of the child if they want to be adopted by any couple, but I think most young children in care would happily take any loving family. I'm not against gay adoption, not by any means, I just think it's a contentious issue that none of us will understand unless we are in the position of being a child adopted by a gay couple, or one part of a gay couple adopting a child. Circumstances vary everywhere. One child that might get picked on for having gay parents could easily be another child whose friends think it's quite cool and unusual and are totally fine with it.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Zee

Is it just me that thinks gay couples should only be allowed to adopt children who are old enough to decide if they'd be happy to live with a gay couple as parents? A baby/toddler/young child could well grow up to hate their adoptive parents because it wasn't their decision to live with them; that is no reflection on what the gay couple are like as people, but the issue being with the concept of gay parents. I don't know, I think it's unfair to deny people that basic wish of having a family of their own, but I think gay couples should be adopting teenagers, not young children... I don't really know how best to express my view, but that's basically it!

And what age would you suggest is "old enough" for a child to be able to make a judgement call on whether they would like to be adopted by a gay couple??? Meanwhile, there they are languishing in children's homes being brought up by emotionally detached strangers employed by the State - I would have thought the stigma of that would be far worse to cope with.

So gay couples should only be "allowed" to adopt "teenagers" thereby depriving said teenagers of any kind of family life until they are "old enough", and depriving said gay couples of the joys of parenting a child from infancy? Unbelievable!

[Z]

Originally Posted by angus58

And what age would you suggest is "old enough" for a child to be able to make a judgement call on whether they would like to be adopted by a gay couple??? Meanwhile, there they are languishing in children's homes being brought up by emotionally detached strangers employed by the State - I would have thought the stigma of that would be far worse to cope with.

So gay couples should only be "allowed" to adopt "teenagers" thereby depriving said teenagers of any kind of family life until they are "old enough", and depriving said gay couples of the joys of parenting a child from infancy? Unbelievable!

Old enough to walk, talk, read, write? I don't know, I've not thought it through I just feel that any child under state care should be the one to decide where they want to go. I find your way of describing children's homes a bit over the top; "languishing" and "emotionally detached"... they're in care, they're not victims of Miss Trunchbull! My view stands for all sexual preferences looking to adopt, it's just my very general view that a child should get to decide what's best for them, not the state; after all, they have been deprived of the parents that brought them into the world for whatever reason, they should be in the position to choose the next best thing.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Zee

Old enough to walk, talk, read, write? I don't know, I've not thought it through I just feel that any child under state care should be the one to decide where they want to go. I find your way of describing children's homes a bit over the top; "languishing" and "emotionally detached"... they're in care, they're not victims of Miss Trunchbull! My view stands for all sexual preferences looking to adopt, it's just my very general view that a child should get to decide what's best for them, not the state; after all, they have been deprived of the parents that brought them into the world for whatever reason, they should be in the position to choose the next best thing.

My description is far from "over the top" - unfortunately my ex was brought up in Dr Barnardos and whilst they might have tended to his physical and educational needs, they could never, ever replace a family environment and he was severely emotionally scarred. The marriage broke down because I could not cope with his possessiveness, jealousy and insecurity which all stemmed from his lack of FAMILY love in his childhood. He also had no idea how to be a good father, and was emotionally detached from his own children.

No matter how well meaning, kind and attentive PAID children's home workers are, they go home to their own families and can never be emotionally involved with the children to the extent that a parent is. I really find it incredible that anyone would think it's better to allow children to (and I reiterate), languish in a children's home, rather than be adopted by parents of whatever gender, who want to love, nurture and care for them and put in the years of emotional investment that all good parents put into their kids. You must be aware that at age 18 you are turfed out to live independently, though in my ex husband's day, it was 16. That can be quite scary with no family support system in place.

[Z]

Originally Posted by angus58

My description is far from "over the top" - unfortunately my ex was brought up in Dr Barnardos and whilst they might have tended to his physical and educational needs, they could never, ever replace a family environment and he was severely emotionally scarred. The marriage broke down because I could not cope with his possessiveness, jealousy and insecurity which all stemmed from his lack of FAMILY love in his childhood. He also had no idea how to be a good father, and was emotionally detached from his own children.

No matter how well meaning, kind and attentive PAID children's home workers are, they go home to their own families and can never be emotionally involved with the children to the extent that a parent is. I really find it incredible that anyone would think it's better to allow children to (and I reiterate), languish in a children's home, rather than be adopted by parents of whatever gender, who want to love, nurture and care for them and put in the years of emotional investment that all good parents put into their kids. You must be aware that at age 18 you are turfed out to live independently, though in my ex husband's day, it was 16. That can be quite scary with no family support system in place.

Ah, well now I understand why your views are so strong; I apologise if I've offended you! I certainly don't agree with the opposition to gay couples adopting because they 'wouldn't be good parents'; anyone who was brought up in a loving family environment will, generally speaking, go on to create a loving family environment of their own when they're older. I don't think it'd be any better to leave a child in a children's home than to send them off to a family; I just know that if I was in that position, I'd want to have chosen my adoptive parents myself and not have been given away when I was too young to know it was happening.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Zee

Ah, well now I understand why your views are so strong; I apologise if I've offended you! I certainly don't agree with the opposition to gay couples adopting because they 'wouldn't be good parents'; anyone who was brought up in a loving family environment will, generally speaking, go on to create a loving family environment of their own when they're older. I don't think it'd be any better to leave a child in a children's home than to send them off to a family; I just know that if I was in that position, I'd want to have chosen my adoptive parents myself and not have been given away when I was too young to know it was happening.

Oh no, you didn't offend me at all, I'm just kind of passionate about the welfare of children - and any form of child abuse, be it emotional, physical, sexual or neglect will get me up on my soap box as, no doubt, it will with the majority of people.

I think, in an ideal world, we would all wish to choose our parents! But irrespective of how awful some parents are, it is well documented, time and again, that kids would rather stay with them than be removed to what social workers consider more appropriate homes. Unfortunately with adoptions, its a "buyer's market" and kids are lucky to be considered for adoption at all, let alone have a choice in the matter, especially the older ones. Most prospective adoptive parents don't want to take on kids with baggage, they want babies.

I think that everyone just needs to feel that they "belong" somewhere and can have a shared life with people they love and who love them, and who will care about them all their lives.

[Pyramid*]

yes, as long as the exact same criteria is applied for both gay or straight couples.

A person's sexuality does not make the person - it is their personality,upbringing, moral standing and personal attributes that make a good parent.

One only has to look around at our 'normal' (ie: hetrosexual) nuclear family to see that there are many male/female couples who fall into the most horrid, abusive categories. This also applies to same sex couples. The sex / gender or sexual preference of an individual does not determine if they are a wholesome character.

I'd far rather see mentally balanced couples (gay ref the thread title) being allowed to adopt than seeing some of the way straight couples are allowed to produce child after child - not be in a position to afford the child, or care for it, or actually love the child.

so many publisised cases of hetro couples being the most god awful parents. Its not about sexuality, it's about being able to afford, to cloth, feed, care, love, nurture, educate, comfort, the child - being straight doesn't mean that the straight person can offer these basics.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

yes, as long as the exact same criteria is applied for both gay or straight couples.

A person's sexuality does not make the person - it is their personality,upbringing, moral standing and personal attributes that make a good parent.

One only has to look around at our 'normal' (ie: hetrosexual) nuclear family to see that there are many male/female couples who fall into the most horrid, abusive categories. This also applies to same sex couples. The sex / gender or sexual preference of an individual does not determine if they are a wholesome character.

I'd far rather see mentally balanced couples (gay ref the thread title) being allowed to adopt than seeing some of the way straight couples are allowed to produce child after child - not be in a position to afford the child, or care for it, or actually love the child.

so many publisised cases of hetro couples being the most god awful parents. Its not about sexuality, it's about being able to afford, to cloth, feed, care, love, nurture, educate, comfort, the child - being straight doesn't mean that the straight person can offer these basics.

Exactly my sentiments on the subject.

[Kerry]

Crikey, this is an old thread. But yes, of course gay couples should be able to adopt. Theres no difference. A loving couple are a loving couple

[letmein]

I can't believe we're still having this discussion in 2010. What bs! Of course they should be able to adopt! Case closed!

[Mr XcX]

Maybe,

Depends if the child would cope with bullying etc.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by ~Kerry~

Crikey, this is an old thread. But yes, of course gay couples should be able to adopt. Theres no difference. A loving couple are a loving couple

A 2 year debate so far

[Grimnir]

Yes, but only from third world muslim countries

[letmein]

Originally Posted by Zee

Is it just me that thinks gay couples should only be allowed to adopt children who are old enough to decide if they'd be happy to live with a gay couple as parents?

Yes, it's just you. What a ridiculous statement! Yeesh!

[cub]

Originally Posted by Zee

Is it just me that thinks gay couples should only be allowed to adopt children who are old enough to decide if they'd be happy to live with a gay couple as parents? A baby/toddler/young child could well grow up to hate their adoptive parents because it wasn't their decision to live with them; that is no reflection on what the gay couple are like as people, but the issue being with the concept of gay parents. I don't know, I think it's unfair to deny people that basic wish of having a family of their own, but I think gay couples should be adopting teenagers, not young children... I don't really know how best to express my view, but that's basically it!

Should I hate my adopted parents because they made me eat meat and I am a veggie?

How old would the adopted children be before they could make an informed choice?

Children will not grow up resenting their parents if they are box the same sex, but they might if they are bullied because of it by their peer group. That is the fault of the bullies not the parents of course.

I wholeheartedly disagree with what you've said.

[ElProximo]

No, of course not. They are not a man and woman and add to that carrying on a sexual perversion.