[arista]

"Obama's first two years have been a failure, no matter what spin you put on it,"


True so the Next two more years are his only chance.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

You expect him to make some progress after close to 2 years in office. Two years ago unemployment in the States was 7.7%; now it's 9.6%. If that is not a failure I dont know what is. Ironically, unemployment has been rising the most among those who Obama promised to help, those who voted him into power: young people, black people and the white working class.

I'm not saying that all of America's economic problems should have been solved, they were too large for him to have done that completely. But that was something he didnt acknowledge back during his campaign, he was misleading as to his limitations.

And Livia, I seem to recall you supporting the Tories cuts to the public sector? If that is the case then why are you adamantly defending Obama when his only solution has been to try and stimulate recovery through high state spending which has effectively failed.

The Tea Party are morons, I never denied that, I'm happy to admit it. I'm sure some of them are racially prejudiced against Obama, but they are not the only ones who have criticised his Presidency. He has an approval rating on 37%, and that is not to do with his race. Believe it or not, not all opposition to Obama has been from racist, gun-toting, deep-South Republicans.

Obama's first two years have been a failure, no matter what spin you put on it, or how you try and excuse it.

This debate isn't about my politics, nor is it about the Tory cuts.

Obama was misleading in his election campaign about his limitations? Surely not! I mean, every other politician in the world tells the absolute truth about his limitations when he's rrunning an election campaign, right?

Things move slowly in politics. It's a fact. And while Obama's first couple of years haven't been sparkling, he has had to deal with mopping up the mess from the previous imcumbent who, let's be honest, was a hopless, rich, white. moron. Didn't seen to have to deal with the hatred that Obama's having though... funny that.

And who said anything about "deep-South Republicans?" Sarah Palin is from Alaska, is she not?

I've spent a fair bit of time in the USA and I have to admit that I am not a massive Obama fan. However, I feel a lot of the vitriol aimed at him is racially motivated. We're only a couple of decades away from Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat on a bus for a white man. There is a huge section of the public of the USA who are just not ready to hand the running of their country over to a black man.

[In the Drunk Tank]

Originally Posted by Livia

This debate isn't about my politics, nor is it about the Tory cuts.

Obama was misleading in his election campaign about his limitations? Surely not! I mean, every other politician in the world tells the absolute truth about his limitations when he's rrunning an election campaign, right?

Things move slowly in politics. It's a fact. And while Obama's first couple of years haven't been sparkling, he has had to deal with mopping up the mess from the previous imcumbent who, let's be honest, was a hopless, rich, white. moron. Didn't seen to have to deal with the hatred that Obama's having though... funny that.

And who said anything about "deep-South Republicans?" Sarah Palin is from Alaska, is she not?

I've spent a fair bit of time in the USA and I have to admit that I am not a massive Obama fan. However, I feel a lot of the vitriol aimed at him is racially motivated. We're only a couple of decades away from Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat on a bus for a white man. There is a huge section of the public of the USA who are just not ready to hand the running of their country over to a black man.

No, most politicians dont, all I'm saying is that if you're going to pretend that you have all the answers, and that you'll be able to solve the economic problems, then dont expect not to be faced with criticism when, 2 years down the line, there is no improvement and the economy is actually worse off.

Bush was an idiot, obviously, and yes Obama has had to try and mop up the mess. Trouble is the mess has been made worse, and even if he cant have been expected to solve problems right away, he wasnt expected to increase them. And I disagree that Bush wasnt subjected to as much hatred as Obama, I think Bush actually had to deal with a lot more. He was completely discredited and humiliated throughout his Presidency, and will go down in history as one of the worst Presidents ever.

I dont doubt that America is still plagued by racism, I just dont think it should be assumed that that's where the oppostion to his Presidency is coming from. It will be interesting to see how the political situation changes in the US after the results last night, things are going to be made difficult for him that's for sure

[Tom]

Originally Posted by MTVN

You expect him to make some progress after close to 2 years in office. Two years ago unemployment in the States was 7.7%; now it's 9.6%. If that is not a failure I dont know what is. Ironically, unemployment has been rising the most among those who Obama promised to help, those who voted him into power: young people, black people and the white working class.

I'm not saying that all of America's economic problems should have been solved, they were too large for him to have done that completely. But that was something he didnt acknowledge back during his campaign, he was misleading as to his limitations.

And Livia, I seem to recall you supporting the Tories cuts to the public sector? If that is the case then why are you adamantly defending Obama when his only solution has been to try and stimulate recovery through high state spending which has effectively failed.

The Tea Party are morons, I never denied that, I'm happy to admit it. I'm sure some of them are racially prejudiced against Obama, but they are not the only ones who have criticised his Presidency. He has an approval rating on 37%, and that is not to do with his race. Believe it or not, not all opposition to Obama has been from racist, gun-toting, deep-South Republicans.

Obama's first two years have been a failure, no matter what spin you put on it, or how you try and excuse it.

Obama is seen as a failure because of the high expectations the public had of him. HE created the expectations and he is fully to blame. False hope is one of the worst things you can do.

[Lewis.]

Not to sound stupid everyone. I'm quite into my history and that, although I've always been confused about the Mid-Term elections in America. What do they actually decide, trying to put it in the process of the UK elections, I'm guessing that it just decides how many seats each political party has. But does it mean that Barack Obama will not be president anymore?

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Lewis.

Not to sound stupid everyone. I'm quite into my history and that, although I've always been confused about the Mid-Term elections in America. What do they actually decide, trying to put it in the process of the UK elections, I'm guessing that it just decides how many seats each political party has. But does it mean that Barack Obama will not be president anymore?

With the UK we have Parliamentary elections - where MPs are voted for, and the result decides which political party is in power (this political party has already put forward a candidate for Prime Minister).

However in the US there's several different legislative bodies. There's the Senate, or 'Upper House', which I believe has one or two representatives per US State. I'm not really sure what they vote for or debate - but they have a big say in what the President is and isn't allowed to do. They also deal with Bills. (proposed laws)

Then there's the House of Representatives, which deals with more laws. But they have to be passed by the Senate.

It's almost like the difference between our House of Commons and House of Lords - except, the Senate is FAR more powerful than our Lords, and they're elected :P

[arista]

Barrack Live on SkyNews & SkyNewsHD & CNN
was asked by Bloomberg if he will hit the Reset Button.
He said yes.

No longer Live on the Bloated BBC news

[arista]

Barrack Live on SkyNews & SkyNewsHD & CNN
seems more positive now

[Lewis.]

Originally Posted by Shaun

With the UK we have Parliamentary elections - where MPs are voted for, and the result decides which political party is in power (this political party has already put forward a candidate for Prime Minister).

However in the US there's several different legislative bodies. There's the Senate, or 'Upper House', which I believe has one or two representatives per US State. I'm not really sure what they vote for or debate - but they have a big say in what the President is and isn't allowed to do. They also deal with Bills. (proposed laws)

Then there's the House of Representatives, which deals with more laws. But they have to be passed by the Senate.

It's almost like the difference between our House of Commons and House of Lords - except, the Senate is FAR more powerful than our Lords, and they're elected :P

Oh right, that's made it a lot clearer . So what exactly are the USA voting for at the moment then?

[Shaun]

Both Houses - Senate and Representatives.

The Democrats (Obama's party) have held onto the Senate, but the Republicans have taken the HoR.

But to answer your earlier question - Obama won't be ousted from power until (at least) the next Presidential elections, because the Presidential Elections are voting for the 'Electoral College', another different political body :P

[Lewis.]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Both Houses - Senate and Representatives.

The Democrats (Obama's party) have held onto the Senate, but the Republicans have taken the HoR.

But to answer your earlier question - Obama won't be ousted from power until (at least) the next Presidential elections, because the Presidential Elections are voting for the 'Electoral College', another different political body :P

That's so much simpler to understand than what I had a look at on Wikipedia. Thanks

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

So you think during the time he's been in office, all of the problems you listed should have been sorted out? Or at least have begun to be sorted? The electorate thinks their money has been wasted... nothing new there, sounds like every country in the world. Guantanamo was shut down... about time too. His climate change bill was abandoned because Americans are gas-junkies who refuse to acknowledge there's a problem with climate change. He's made no progress in Afghanistan... and neither has every other country that's ever fought the Afghans so why would you think Obama could make a change in a year and a half? Home repossessions and a large deficit are not limited to the USA, it's happening all over the developed world.

I think the fact that Obama's black has MUCH to do with his current unpopularity. Watching one programme recently one of the Tea Party nutters was carrying a banner that said "Go home to Kenya". Or maybe you didn't see that. Or maybe you haven't heard that they're accusing him of not even being American! Your gun-toting, red-neck Republican is not down with having a black boy in the Whitehouse. And if you don't think that's really an issue, then you're dreaming.

Livia, brilliant post, it blows my views into space. you always make me think my position on things like this, every word you said has foundation.

I can only stand back and admire, you have me re-thinking my position on this one too.

I've said it before and I say it again, you should stand for Parliament, you'd have my vote, no hesitation.

[In the Drunk Tank]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Livia, brilliant post, it blows my views into space. you always make me think my position on things like this, every word you said has foundation.

I can only stand back and admire, you have me re-thinking my position on this one too.

I've said it before and I say it again, you should stand for Parliament, you'd have my vote, no hesitation.

Funny that, yesterday you didnt give a sh*t about the mid-term elections.

[joeysteele]

I did actually and I have opinions on all issues like everyone else, all I was against was the near blanket coverage of USA matters in the UK often long before the event. I said, they were very important if you read my comments, I then also agreed with another poster who was complaining as to the USA elections all over the place.

I have relatives in the USA, I consider it all important and if you can show me anywhere where I said it wasn't important and that I had no interest in them then please do so.

I only made a point of view, that we in the UK only need to be given the results and not necessarily the blAnket coverage of elections in the USA. I also was not the only one saying that too.

As it happens I have spent a fair bit of today analysing the results with Friends.The results that is, I cannot vote in the USA so only the results interest me especially in the mid term elections, in my view and even if it is only my view,I think we don't need the analysis and coverage weeks before them near non stop on UK TV.

[arista]

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

No, most politicians dont, all I'm saying is that if you're going to pretend that you have all the answers, and that you'll be able to solve the economic problems, then dont expect not to be faced with criticism when, 2 years down the line, there is no improvement and the economy is actually worse off.

Bush was an idiot, obviously, and yes Obama has had to try and mop up the mess. Trouble is the mess has been made worse, and even if he cant have been expected to solve problems right away, he wasnt expected to increase them. And I disagree that Bush wasnt subjected to as much hatred as Obama, I think Bush actually had to deal with a lot more. He was completely discredited and humiliated throughout his Presidency, and will go down in history as one of the worst Presidents ever.

I dont doubt that America is still plagued by racism, I just dont think it should be assumed that that's where the oppostion to his Presidency is coming from. It will be interesting to see how the political situation changes in the US after the results last night, things are going to be made difficult for him that's for sure

While I don't pretend to know everything about the politics of the USA, I do know about what politicans claim and what goes into election literature because that's my job. I've written more speeches, election addresses and publicity material than most people have read, and I can assure you that politicians claim to be able to do a lot of things that could potentially take them years to achieve. Obama isn't any different. You can't expect, in all seriousness, that he is going to be able to do everything he claimed within two years. It's unrealistic.

Bush will go down in history as one of the worst presidents ever. And yet he was voted in for a second term.

I would like to think that you were right about racism not really playing a part in Obama's castigation, but I think you're wrong. We can agree to differ.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Livia, brilliant post, it blows my views into space. you always make me think my position on things like this, every word you said has foundation.

I can only stand back and admire, you have me re-thinking my position on this one too.

I've said it before and I say it again, you should stand for Parliament, you'd have my vote, no hesitation.

Thanks joeysteele - the cheque's in the post ;-)