[Shasown]

Perhaps the greatest irony about prisoners voting rights is currently there is a case from Austria having just gone through Europe called the Frodl case.

This actually allows a voting ban to be placed on those guilty of electoral fraud or abuse of public position, so any MP who gets sentenced to prison for lets say false expenses could automatically lose their rights to vote while convicted rapists and murderers are allowed to vote.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...an-ruling.html

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Livia

No I would not be happy to pay ANY money regarding this issue, either to our own courts or to Europe. We've already suffered enough by meekly following each and every whim that Europe dictates. We should be more like France when it comes to ignoring Europe. God... I can't believe I just said that LOL...

At the last County election I was involved in, one seat was one by just three votes and another by seven votes. Every single vote counts.

The prisoners would not be able to choose which area their vote went to, they would only be able to vote in the place where their name appears on the electoral roll.

If the government sit down and talk it through with European Human Rights lawyers etc. They may come up with a workable solution which allows a ban on criminals sentenced to over a set number of years, or in certain crimes.

Incidentally ECHR is a problem of our own making as we were instrumental in helping to set it up as a result of WW2. It is a distinct separate entity from the European Union

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Perhaps the greatest irony about prisoners voting rights is currently there is a case from Austria having just gone through Europe called the Frodl case.

This actually allows a voting ban to be placed on those guilty of electoral fraud or abuse of public position, so any MP who gets sentenced to prison for lets say false expenses could automatically lose their rights to vote while convicted rapists and murderers are allowed to vote.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...an-ruling.html

Haha... now THAT is interesting and strangely amusing.

This isn't relevant to the main thread but to that story... Fiddling election expenses would result in a case of electoral fraud. Obviously the recent cases of MPs overclaiming and falsely claiming does not constitute "electoral" fraud. Electoral fraud would result in the MP and their agent being jailed because it's the agent who returns details of expenses to the Electoral Commission and signs their name to them. And that's me. And that's why my MPs expenses are always right! As a side note, and speaking personally, I think that MPs of all parties should be regularly placed in the pillories on College Green and pelted with rotten fruit by the elecorate... help them remember that they are public servants. But I didn't say that, obviously.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Shasown

If the government sit down and talk it through with European Human Rights lawyers etc. They may come up with a workable solution which allows a ban on criminals sentenced to over a set number of years, or in certain crimes.

Incidentally ECHR is a problem of our own making as we were instrumental in helping to set it up as a result of WW2. It is a distinct separate entity from the European Union

Agreed. We created a monster.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Livia

Haha... now THAT is interesting and strangely amusing.

This isn't relevant to the main thread but to that story... Fiddling election expenses would result in a case of electoral fraud. Obviously the recent cases of MPs overclaiming and falsely claiming does not constitute "electoral" fraud. Electoral fraud would result in the MP and their agent being jailed because it's the agent who returns details of expenses to the Electoral Commission and signs their name to them. And that's me. And that's why my MPs expenses are always right! As a side note, and speaking personally, I think that MPs of all parties should be regularly placed in the pillories on College Green and pelted with rotten fruit by the elecorate... help them remember that they are public servants. But I didn't say that, obviously.

Very true but MP's fiddling expenses from the Commons would be considered to have been guilty of an abuse of a public position.

Love the idea of the pillories, should bring back some other punishments from days gone by too.

[SoBig]

Originally Posted by Jamie.....

No, they lost their rights when they broke the law

My thoughts exactly.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Very true but MP's fiddling expenses from the Commons would be considered to have been guilty of an abuse of a public position.

Love the idea of the pillories, should bring back some other punishments from days gone by too.

I think the most annoying thing about the expenses scandal was that they weren't actually breaking the law. The system allowed them to abuse it. Of course this begs the question, should someone be in public office if they don't understand the difference between their legal right and their moral responsibility?

I'd vote for horse-whipping and the birch. But it's Friday... I might feel a little less aggressive come Monday.

[Pyramid*]

Should prisoners be allowed to vote. Hell NO.

Neither should they have the cushy lifestyle that modern day British prisons afford them either.

and please, don't bleat about 'Human Rights'. Most prisoners are in jail for not giving a **** about other peoples' Human Rights.

The Arabs have 'partly' the right idea when it comes to dealing with crime - so harsh prison life is, most people don't want to end up there. yes I know there is the argument for them being too harsh - but overall, prison and the thought of being punished and going to prison, should be a deterrent. It's not, not in our laid back Prisoners have rights, society.

Pisses me off no end. Jail should be a hardship - not a pampered 'choice o menu' 3 meals a day, no subsidised shopping, no games, no tv's, playstations, in room tvs. Lock them up and provide no stimulation. The had their chance to learn on the outside, why the hell should my taxes be used to afford them free further education that others on the outside have to bloody pay for.

[Enid]

Did anyone watch that new TV show Coppers? It was on last week and really did open my eyes. It costs £90,000 of tax payer's money to send one person to prison PER YEAR.

90 GRAND. PER PRISONER. PER YEAR. A WASTE OF OXYGEN AND RESOURCES IS COSTING US 90 GRAND. HOW AND WHY IS WHAT I ASK.

Again, they shouldn't be allowed to live. This may make me unpopular, but ol' Adolf was sort of going in the right direction... until he started killing all those Jews.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Enid

Did anyone watch that new TV show Coppers? It was on last week and really did open my eyes. It costs £90,000 of tax payer's money to send one person to prison PER YEAR.

90 GRAND. PER PRISONER. PER YEAR. A WASTE OF OXYGEN AND RESOURCES IS COSTING US 90 GRAND. HOW AND WHY IS WHAT I ASK.

Again, they shouldn't be allowed to live. This may make me unpopular, but ol' Adolf was sort of going in the right direction... until he started killing all those Jews.

Yeah i saw Coppers too, wonder where they got that figure from? Official Home Office figures state a prison place in England and Wales costs £41000 per year

"Each new prison place costs £170,000 to build and maintain, and the cost per prisoner per year is £41,000.

Taking the cost of established places and the new build cost would give an average of £105,000 but thats only till the prison is paid for then costs fall back to lower than original levels.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8640399.stm

http://www.civitas.org.uk/pubs/prisonValue.php

However with Scotland factored in it costs £37,500 as per 2007 figures

"The costs of actually keeping prisoners within prison vary significantly, but
average £37,500 per year."

http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/medi...ng_summary.pdf


Maybe the Americans can teach us something about prison costings, it costs on average $22,000 per prisoner per year, thats less than £15,000.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Enid

This may make me unpopular, but ol' Adolf was sort of going in the right direction... until he started killing all those Jews.

I hope you're joking..

[30stone]

You comit a crime and go to prison you give up your rights imo.

[Enid]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I hope you're joking..

Semi.

Honestly, if you're not gonna behave like a human being, don't expect to be treated like one.

[Enid]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Yeah i saw Coppers too, wonder where they got that figure from? Official Home Office figures state a prison place in England and Wales costs £41000 per year

"Each new prison place costs £170,000 to build and maintain, and the cost per prisoner per year is £41,000.

Taking the cost of established places and the new build cost would give an average of £105,000 but thats only till the prison is paid for then costs fall back to lower than original levels.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8640399.stm

http://www.civitas.org.uk/pubs/prisonValue.php

However with Scotland factored in it costs £37,500 as per 2007 figures

"The costs of actually keeping prisoners within prison vary significantly, but
average £37,500 per year."

http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/medi...ng_summary.pdf


Maybe the Americans can teach us something about prison costings, it costs on average $22,000 per prisoner per year, thats less than £15,000.

Even so.. that is still £41,000 better off elsewhere...

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Enid

... ol' Adolf was sort of going in the right direction... until he started killing all those Jews.

... and gypsies, the disabled, gays, Jehovah's Witnesses and a myriad of other groups that didn't fit in with his ideals regardind the master race. The killing of the Jews and other groups was the culmination of years of abuse and victimisation, so to say he was going in the right direction is insulting.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

... and gypsies, the disabled, gays, Jehovah's Witnesses and a myriad of other groups that didn't fit in with his ideals regardind the master race. The killing of the Jews and other groups was the culmination of years of abuse and victimisation, so to say he was going in the right direction is insulting.

Agreed, the regime was deplorable in every way, and I'm not just talking about their racial discrimination either.