[MTVN]

Originally Posted by ange7

on reflection everything you have said here is correct. I'm such a mong... please forgive me? This thread should be retitled "what MTVN wants to talk about".
snnnnaps! :P

I would like that.

[ange7]

Originally Posted by thebeast

I do think it's a lot of money paying 9 grand a year to do a degree course. Therefore it will cost you 27 grand when you have finished the course. (This is on average)

I don't blame the protesters. However suppose there are plenty of people at uni who should not be there. However it is so hard to get a job. I would have gone to university if I couldn't find a job which I was really lucky to get.

It is a lose lose situation!

getting your voice heard is a win situation. A life full of apathy and regrets is a lose situation. I life where you resent the fact that your tax dollars are helping kids getting an education is a lose lose situation. Wishing that student pay for a uni education and thereby ensuring only the wealthiest kids get that education is, on a broader social level, a lose to the power of lose situation.

[ange7]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I would like that.

"the internet says no"

[Angus]

Originally Posted by thebeast

I do think it's a lot of money paying 9 grand a year to do a degree course. Therefore it will cost you 27 grand when you have finished the course. (This is on average)

I don't blame the protesters. However suppose there are plenty of people at uni who should not be there. However it is so hard to get a job. I would have gone to university if I couldn't find a job which I was really lucky to get.

It is a lose lose situation!

If students actually study useful and worthwhile courses, they will be sought after by employers and will be earning well in excess of the average wage during their lifetime, so it is up to the students concerned not to waste their time (and money) studying useless and pointless subjects for degrees that no employer wants. If they persist in doing so, for whatever reasons (usually because it's a soft option) that's their tough luck.

[ange7]

Originally Posted by angus58

If students actually study useful and worthwhile courses, they will be sought after by employers and will be earning well in excess of the average wage during their lifetime, so it is up to the students concerned not to waste their time (and money) studying useless and pointless subjects for degrees that no employer wants. If they persist in doing so, for whatever reasons (usually because it's a soft option) that's their tough luck.

"f students actually study useful and worthwhile courses, they will be sought after by employers and will be earning well in excess of the average wage during their lifetime"

and therefore paying buckets loads of tax AND providing services that society need. The tax that they will pay far outweighs the cost of the education. Tax payer wins...what are you moaning about? This point has been already made. Please read the post before making old points.

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by angus58

If students actually study useful and worthwhile courses, they will be sought after by employers and will be earning well in excess of the average wage during their lifetime, so it is up to the students concerned not to waste their time (and money) studying useless and pointless subjects for degrees that no employer wants. If they persist in doing so, for whatever reasons (usually because it's a soft option) that's their tough luck.

True. They said Students who study "Art" won't be earning much in the long run or something? But if you study something like "Maths" you will possibly earn a lot of money! Depending on your degree grade. If you just scrape a 2:2 or something you will be struggling to find a decent paid job when another graduate with a 2:1 or a 1st will be competing for the same job too!

However if you are good at Art you might as well be self employed. Draw and paint your own pictures/canvases and sell them off. You could end up earning a few hundered quid for each one.

However Angus.. If people don't choose to go to uni.. they will try and find a job in which there is limited amount of jobs going. There is also limited amount of apprentices going nowadays.

Also on the worthwhile degree courses they can only take so many people!

A lot of people are going to miss out and will end up on the dole taking ages to try and find a job or something!

[arista]

"but out of interest arista what are your views on the tuition fee increase? "

There is no other way
and the poor are not paying that much.

Labour , if in power, would carry on with Trident
so no other money is there.

[arista]

Ch4 News is on now

[Judas]

Originally Posted by arista

"but out of interest arista what are your views on the tuition fee increase? "

There is no other way
and the poor are not paying that much.

Labour , if in power, would carry on with Trident
so no other money is there.

Sticking to party line I see! The money is there though... the current system can be afforded, even if the Cons do what to get rid of the deficit as soon as they plan.

[arista]

SkyNews just confirmed 32 students arrested.

[Beso]

Smash the system!

[arista]

Originally Posted by Judas

Sticking to party line I see! The money is there though... the current system can be afforded, even if the Cons do what to get rid of the deficit as soon as they plan.

We are in a Conservative-LibDem Power , first off.
And under current plans to rid us of the massive Labour Debt
and Interest we have to pay on it, there is no other way.

Nick Clegg &
David Cameron are doing better for us all.


You do not know it yet.

[arista]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Smash the system!

Yes - But you need Men for that.
Not Kids

[Angus]

Originally Posted by thebeast

True. They said Students who study "Art" won't be earning much in the long run or something? But if you study something like "Maths" you will possibly earn a lot of money! Depending on your degree grade. If you just scrape a 2:2 or something you will be struggling to find a decent paid job when another graduate with a 2:1 or a 1st will be competing for the same job too!

However if you are good at Art you might as well be self employed. Draw and paint your own pictures/canvases and sell them off. You could end up earning a few hundered quid for each one.

However Angus.. If people don't choose to go to uni.. they will try and find a job in which there is limited amount of jobs going. There is also limited amount of apprentices going nowadays.

Also on the worthwhile degree courses they can only take so many people!

A lot of people are going to miss out and will end up on the dole taking ages to try and find a job or something!

As I said on another thread, my 21 year old son is streets ahead on the career ladder, having opted NOT to go to uni after his A levels, and most of his mates who have recently graduated are still unemployed. Seems that sometimes the university of life is a much better option.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes - But you need Men for that.
Not Kids

Never a truer word. Where do these students get their misplaced sense of entitlement from FFS? It's always someone else who is expected to pick up the tab. Not a good idea to get yourself a criminal record before you've even got your degree

[arista]

Well Done Ch4 News Live
telling the NUS Leader Porter, in the studio,
that No Student Pays Up Front.

[Judas]

Originally Posted by arista

Well Done Ch4 News Live
telling the NUS Leader Porter, in the studio,
that No Student Pays Up Front.

No, instead we pay for 60 years for trying to better ourselves and generally give back to society.

[Barbie]

Originally Posted by angus58

As I said on another thread, my 21 year old son is streets ahead on the career ladder, having opted NOT to go to uni after his A levels, and most of his mates who have recently graduated are still unemployed. Seems that sometimes the university of life is a lot a much better option.

I think it is a better option, i decided to go to uni, but i know loads of graduates who don't have a job or are in a dead end job. Whereas in a year one of my friends is now a manager at a retail store and ready to be promoted further up the chain. Her life is pretty much set now, whereas mine is still in limbo. Considering leaving uni and going out into the world of work.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Judas

No, instead we pay for 60 years for trying to better ourselves and generally give back to society.

It is really arrogant to suggest that only people with degrees "give back to society" - there are plenty of hardworking, contributing citizens who are indispensible to society who either never had the opportunity to go to university, or prudently decided not to do so and instead go straight out to work.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Judas

No, instead we pay for 60 years for trying to better ourselves and generally give back to society.

Not everyone is paing back for 60years
not everyone will be earning 21K.

You are so Negative.


You are in a Great Nation.

In China , for example ,
you could not even talk in a Free way.

[Judas]

Originally Posted by angus58

It is really arrogant to suggest that only people with degrees "give back to society" - there are plenty of hardworking, contributing citizens who are indispensible to society who either never had the opportunity to go to university, or prudently decided not to do so and instead go straight out to work.

Sorry, I hope it didn't come across that I was ignoring the fact your made. But I also think it is really ignorant to see students/graduates as scroungers who go into education to party for three years. It is work to you know.

[arista]

Judas
do you have a View on the Ex-Labour
trouble maker
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru...94#post3903694

Nothing to do with this,
but I thought your viewpoint would be valid,
if you have the time.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Judas

Sorry, I hope it didn't come across that I was ignoring the fact your made. But I also think it is really ignorant to see students/graduates as scroungers who go into education to party for three years. It is work to you know.

It is not necessary to go to university in order to better yourself - I never had the option to go when I left school, my family were not well off and I felt the need to contribute to their finances so I went out to work, straight after my O'levels. I trained on the job and was earning a good salary by the time I was 21. I then took a few years out to travel, which was in itself educational, since I acquired a couple of languages fluently in the process, as well as broadening my mind, attitudes, opinions etc.

Then when my children were small, I started studying with the Open University and ended up eventually with a BA(Hons), a BSc(Hons) a PGCE (Primary) and several diplomas, all achieved whilst also holding down a full time job as a legal executive, (trained on the job), and caring for my family. So you see, you can better yourself whenever you want if you have the commitment and drive to do so, without expecting others to fund YOUR choice to go into further education.

Furthermore, this obsession with academic qualifications is unhealthy, since some people are more suited to practical, hands on work and there should be more apprenticeships to fill the need for electricians, plumbers, construction workers etc.

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by Judas

LOL. Who is this view aimed at? MOST of the people on that march had drive and enthuasism - well done for getting your 10 hour a day job (that is meant honestly) but I fail to see how you can call people wasters for going on to further education.

I'm talking about the ones rioting at the demonstrations, they're the sort of people who go for the alcohol and parties, of course there is people who actually study, and probably are the ones who actually don't make too much of a fuss

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Judas

Because I am PAYING for a job that I want -
In many cases this means greater responsibility -
In many cases this jobs benefits the whole of society - Law, Science, Maths, Medicine, Internation Relations - these all need additional knowledge to benefit SOCIETY.
These fields give money and help back to society - Therefore I think it is only fair some funding comes from society. As funding would go to Trident or Job Seekers Allowance.

Your view seems to adopt the thatcherite view that there is NO society.

Good. People undervalue education and take it for granted. Its about time people realised the worth of what they're doing or what they want to do.

Originally Posted by Judas

How on earth is this a daft protest? I suppose you think it is best to do (exactally what I am doing!) and just complain about injustices online? This is active politics - this is making a point about injustice in our country. I plan to work for what I have in life, but I can't afford to fund or pay for a £9000 a year education system. What counts as a proper job, working in Marks and Spencers as a Manager?

I would rather protest for fairness that have some dillusion that I am from some high middle class backround, above those that leave school at 16 or choose to enter higher education.

Of course qualifications help get a better job - Tom it seems you criticise any lifestyle choice but your own.

Because smashing windows and climbing onto the roof of Millbank Tower is exactly the right message to be sending out about students. I can't wait until these people are practicing barristers in the Crown Courts. Qualifications only get you so far. Whats the point in getting a degree in Psychology or Law and then going to work in a call centre like loads of graduates do? Most degrees are becoming worthless because they're becoming standard. These price hikes are going to give them some value again because people will only go if they have to. Unless going into a job in a specific field that has been studied in, a graduate is in no better position than a college leaver in terms of full time work.

Originally Posted by ange7

It's not fair because
a) once they graduate and are earning they are paying bucket loads of more tax than if they sat at home watching Deal or know deal. Get it? The money tax payers pay to train them comes back in the first 10 years of their working life
b) It's an investment in the community... like health care, like early and secondary education. You want ALL users to ALWAYS pay? That's where the logic of your argument leads.
The issue is how do you see society? As a a group of individual who all looks out for number one... or as a community who all chip in for what's best for EVERYONE.

I don't have a problem if people actually want to do something with their degree but people who go for the sake of it or because its expected are just a pointless waste of money and resources. Besides, student loans are paid back at pennies per week when you earn over a certain threshold, its not bank breaking stuff, most people don't even notice its gone from their wages. I don't watch Deal or No Deal either thanks, I've got a full time job and I'm studying for a degree that I plan to do something with. I pay for mine in full because its with OU, I won't be graduating with any debt and i'm more than happy to pay because its in the field I want to work in.