[nanaimo]

having cheryl going second was a fix, how can you justify that one?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm not denying him an opinion, I'm just saying it's a fact now that it's not fixed. He can be in denial about it all he wants but that doesn't stop me from having an opinion on his opinion. It's a two way street Niamh.

Like I said, ITV are allowed to determine who goes however they wish, it's always been the case but people are okay with it as long as they get their own way. It's only a problem when they don't.

All these opinions on opinions are getting confusing

But my only issue is that you said "Ofcom has ruled that it's not a fix so drop it and stop being bitter, it's getting tiresome" which in effect is telling people that they shouldn't be talking about it anymore. Why ever not??? This is the X-Factor forum, it's the big controversy and talking point this week, why would we not be talking about it?? If we weren't the tumble weed would be rolling through this section right now!!

And yeah of course it's only a problem if it goes against what you wanted but that's just human nature!

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

They have no reason in your opinion but in theirs and mine, we do. They may not have broken any rules but imo they manipulated the situation to suit what they wanted, which if nothing else is unfair (imo)

All reality shows manipulate situations, BB did it frequently which often influenced evictions. It's a fact of reality TV that it can be manipulated however the producers want it and it's been that way ever since Reality TV began. If the public had total control most shows would be incredibly dull as by large the voting public are stupid and irrational and as a whole nearly always makes the wrong decisions on all Reality shows with votes.

[fruit_cake]

I don't see what harm a bit of gossip on an internet forum is going to do.. the worlds not going to end I reckon

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

All reality shows manipulate situations, BB did it frequently which often influenced evictions. It's a fact of reality TV that it can be manipulated however the producers want it and it's been that way ever since Reality TV began. If the public had total control most shows would be incredibly dull as by large the voting public are stupid and irrational and as a whole nearly always makes the wrong decisions on all Reality shows with votes.

And when they did it on BB we whinged and moaned about it too, all part of the fun of Reality TV and these forums, because after you talk about how well are badly the contestants have done, we move onto to the gossip and conspiracy theories!

[nanaimo]

I have friends in Canada and they have been watching it and they don't have the tabloids and news we have here but their reaction was FIX and it has even been on some tv stations there as x factor fix, so you say its not but alot of people feel it is i'm afraid.

[nanaimo]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

And when they did it on BB we whinged and moaned about it too, all part of the fun of Reality TV and these forums, because after you talk about how well are badly the contestants have done, we move onto to the gossip and conspiracy theories!

Next week we will have wurzels with their conspiracy theories about why Katie was voted out

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

All these opinions on opinions are getting confusing

But my only issue is that you said "Ofcom has ruled that it's not a fix so drop it and stop being bitter, it's getting tiresome" which in effect is telling people that they shouldn't be talking about it anymore. Why ever not??? This is the X-Factor forum, it's the big controversy and talking point this week, why would we not be talking about it?? If we weren't the tumble weed would be rolling through this section right now!!

And yeah of course it's only a problem if it goes against what you wanted but that's just human nature!

I just get hung up on the 'fix' part, if Ofcom, a governing body that knows far more about the situation then any of us will ever know says nothing is wrong then it annoys me when people say it's fixed as it isn't. It's just manipulated like I said in another post. People wouldn't have complained if it was the other way around and Katie went in a majority vote and that makes them hypocritical.

You either think it's all wrong or not at all, you can't pick and choose otherwise it's hyporcritical.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by nanaimo

Next week we will have wurzels with their conspiracy theories about why Katie was voted out

Well since that was aimed at me, I'm a rational human being. I don't foam at the mouth over what happens on some Reality TV show. She's going to go next week or the week after anyway and that's fine. It's not like I'm going to care about any of the contestants beyond Christmas anyway.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I just get hung up on the 'fix' part, if Ofcom, a governing body that knows far more about the situation then any of us will ever know says nothing is wrong then it annoys me when people say it's fixed as it isn't. It's just manipulated like I said in another post. People wouldn't have complained if it was the other way around and Katie went in a majority vote and that makes them hypocritical.

You either think it's all wrong or not at all, you can't pick and choose otherwise it's hyporcritical.

I take your point but when people say Fix they mean in the sense that the producers fixed it for Katie to stay rather than fixed the voting. And I think this is a valid theory. The people who are complaining now probably wouldn't have complained if it were the other way round because a) Katies has been in the bottom so much, b) she messed up her song and clearly Treyc was the better singer, does that make them hypocritical? I don't think so. Not everything in life is so black and white. Equally if it had been the other way round Katie fans would be in our position

[nanaimo]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Well since that was aimed at me, I'm a rational human being. I don't foam at the mouth over what happens on some Reality TV show. She's going to go next week or the week after anyway and that's fine. It's not like I'm going to care about any of the contestants beyond Christmas anyway.

All this banter we have on forums is not malicious at all its just fun, if we didn't it would be very boring wouldn't it

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I take your point but when people say Fix they mean in the sense that the producers fixed it for Katie to stay rather than fixed the voting. And I think this is a valid theory. The people who are complaining now probably wouldn't have complained if it were the other way round because a) Katies has been in the bottom so much, b) she messed up her song and clearly Treyc was the better singer, does that make them hypocritical? I don't think so. Not everything in life is so black and white. Equally if it had been the other way round Katie fans would be in our position

It'd make them hypocritical because it'd still happen but they wouldn't complain as they got the result they wanted. Just because it'd a popular result wouldn't mean the same type of manipulating wouldn't take place. That's why it's hypocrtical, you can't hate the system when you don't get your own way but celebrate it when you do regardless of circumstances.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It'd make them hypocritical because it'd still happen but they wouldn't complain as they got the result they wanted. Just because it'd a popular result wouldn't mean the same type of manipulating wouldn't take place. That's why it's hypocrtical, you can't hate the system when you don't get your own way but celebrate it when you do regardless of circumstances.

Well, the fact is that if the worse singer and the one who messed up the song went home, then it would have been fair. The system wouldn't have had to be manipulated if it was going on that, so hypothetical hypocrisy isn't really a good enough reason to tell people to stop talking about the biggest talking point this series!

[Locke.]

None of them were going to win anyway, if Treyc stayed then she would have just been in the bottom 2 again either this week or next week, just like Katie will be.

More people are interested in seeing Katie perform, even if she has been in the bottom 2 more times, you just have to look on the forums to see that. So she should be singing on the tour over people that no one wants to hear.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Locke.

None of them were going to win anyway, if Treyc stayed then she would have just been in the bottom 2 again either this week or next week, just like Katie will be.

More people are interested in seeing Katie perform, even if she has been in the bottom 2 more times, you just have to look on the forums to see that. So she should be singing on the tour over people that no one wants to hear.

you're right in saying neither of them will win but very wrong in who people would rather listen to sing, I know if I had to choose, I'd be picking Treyc for the sake of my ears

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Well, the fact is that if the worse singer and the one who messed up the song went home, then it would have been fair. The system wouldn't have had to be manipulated if it was going on that, so hypothetical hypocrisy isn't really a good enough reason to tell people to stop talking about the biggest talking point this series!

But that's still justifying it because it's the favourable result and it's still hypocritical no matter how you cut it. Let's say if next week Aiden went and I was suddenly all 'IT'S A FIX RAWR RAGE RAWR' people would waste no time in saying I was a hypocrite and they'd be right as I'd only agree with the system as long as I got the result I wanted.

It's the same thing here but reversed.

I only wanted people to stop saying it was a fix as it wasn't, they can discuss the ethics of it all they want. I just hate it when people in denial can't accept facts. It wasn't a fixed result but a manipulated one and most people are okay with that as long as it's the result they want which annoys me.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

But that's still justifying it because it's the favourable result and it's still hypocritical no matter how you cut it. Let's say if next week Aiden went and I was suddenly all 'IT'S A FIX RAWR RAGE RAWR' people would waste no time in saying I was a hypocrite and they'd be right as I'd only agree with the system as long as I got the result I wanted.

It's the same thing here but reversed.

I only wanted people to stop saying it was a fix as it wasn't, they can discuss the ethics of it all they want. I just hate it when people in denial can't accept facts. It wasn't a fixed result but a manipulated one and most people are okay with that as long as it's the result they want which annoys me.

You're still talking about hypothetical situations though, you can't tell me how I would or wouldn't react to a situation that hasn't even happened yet. And what would be wrong with someone saying, yeah it was a bit manipulated but I'm not that annoyed cos it's the result I wanted? That's not hypocritical, that's being honest.

And people who are saying fix are using it in a different way to you, nobody is saying that the votes were fixed they're saying it was fixed in such a way to avoid deadlock which imo is correct.

[nanaimo]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

You're still talking about hypothetical situations though, you can't tell me how I would or wouldn't react to a situation that hasn't even happened yet. And what would be wrong with someone saying, yeah it was a bit manipulated but I'm not that annoyed cos it's the result I wanted? That's not hypocritical, that's being honest.

And people who are saying fix are using it in a different way to you, nobody is saying that the votes were fixed they're saying it was fixed in such a way to avoid deadlock which imo is correct.

yes exactly, i think we all saw the same thing and was obvious what was going on.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

You're still talking about hypothetical situations though, you can't tell me how I would or wouldn't react to a situation that hasn't even happened yet. And what would be wrong with someone saying, yeah it was a bit manipulated but I'm not that annoyed cos it's the result I wanted? That's not hypocritical, that's being honest.

Hypocrisy and Honesty aren't two opposing concepts, it's possible to be both. Manipulations happen in all eliminations, not just the controversial ones. Plus you see it throughout the other parts of X Factor as well. Simon and the producer's have their favourites and you can see this easily as they almost always got universal praise every week (unless the producers want a sympathy based angle) as well as favourable coverage in the spinoff shows, for example in one segment I remember they branded Rebecca the most stylish and nicest contestant if I remember right and then said that Wagner was difficult to live with and such. It's both subtle and obtuse in a way but both are ways to reinforce opinions on both of these acts (not that Rebecca needs special treatment really, same for Matt despite his increasing blandness. Still they'll both get it).

Yet they won't get called out on it as they're popular. It's just hypocrisy. The system's only bad when people want a reason to complain when they don't get what they want. That's why it's hypocritical and I'm repeating myself I know but that's the fact of the matter. You either think the system's fixed or you don't. You can't switch and swap week in and week out.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Hypocrisy and Honesty aren't two opposing concepts, it's possible to be both. Manipulations happen in all eliminations, not just the controversial ones. Plus you see it throughout the other parts of X Factor as well. Simon and the producer's have their favourites and you can see this easily as they almost always got universal praise every week (unless the producers want a sympathy based angle) as well as favourable coverage in the spinoff shows, for example in one segment I remember they branded Rebecca the most stylish and nicest contestant if I remember right and then said that Wagner was difficult to live with and such. It's both subtle and obtuse in a way but both are ways to reinforce opinions on both of these acts (not that Rebecca needs special treatment really, same for Matt despite his increasing blandness. Still they'll both get it).

Yet they won't get called out on it as they're popular. It's just hypocrisy. The system's only bad when people want a reason to complain when they don't get what they want. That's why it's hypocritical and I'm repeating myself I know but that's the fact of the matter. You either think the system's fixed or you don't. You can't switch and swap week in and week out.

But I do think the system is fixed in general. Obviously I and everyone else will get more annoyed though when it becomes so blatant and unfair as it last week.

Like you said, there really is nothing more I could say on it that wouldn't be repetitive, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one!

[robb]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

All reality shows manipulate situations, BB did it frequently which often influenced evictions. It's a fact of reality TV that it can be manipulated however the producers want it and it's been that way ever since Reality TV began. If the public had total control most shows would be incredibly dull as by large the voting public are stupid and irrational and as a whole nearly always makes the wrong decisions on all Reality shows with votes.

Talking of BB, wouldn't it be fun if we could VOTE TO EVICT just for one week on XF? How about a double eviction lol?

[robb]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I take your point but when people say Fix they mean in the sense that the producers fixed it for Katie to stay rather than fixed the voting. And I think this is a valid theory. The people who are complaining now probably wouldn't have complained if it were the other way round because a) Katies has been in the bottom so much, b) she messed up her song and clearly Treyc was the better singer, does that make them hypocritical? I don't think so. Not everything in life is so black and white. Equally if it had been the other way round Katie fans would be in our position

Yep, the producers must have had a pretty good idea it would end up 2-1 in Katie's favour once Cheryl had done the obvious and not wanted to upset anyone. That's how it was 'fixed'.