[iRyan]

Originally Posted by Zee

She has lots of fans, yes, but that doesn't mean the song is any good. It's generic dance crap that fills a hole for generic dance crap. Why do people insist on putting forward jealousy as a legitimate argument for why someone's opinion is that something is crap? Can people not think something is terrible now without having an ulterior motive for saying so? Her fans love it, and there are lots of her fans - but that's not a majority of music lovers, no way. Just watch as Britney Spears disappears over the next few years. You make a point about Christina Aguilera flopping - why do you think that is? And think about it, Christina Aguilera has a fantastic voice but can't keep on top of her game - Britney Spears relies on everything but singing, and it won't be long before all of those things begin to fade away from her, as you said, she's hitting 30... Don't be so deluded. Accept that you like the song and others don't - why bother trying to justify the song's credibility with facts and figures from Britney's career or comparing her to other artists - that reeks of desperation and says far more about how generic the song is than anything else.

A song doesn't get to #1 just because of a large fanbase. All of her fans LOVED Gimme More but it still didn't get her to #1. Obviously it's more than just her fans buying the song...

People thought Britney was done 4 years ago. She was at the lowest and darkest point in her life ever, with most of the public against her and thinking she was a joke, but she came back and tore up the charts with consecutive #1 first singles and #1 albums and won back the hearts of everyone. Not to mention she had the highest grossing tour of 2009 and the 5th highest grossing female tour of all time that same year. Her success is showing no signs of slowing down...

[Z]

Originally Posted by iRyan

A song doesn't get to #1 just because of a large fanbase. All of her fans LOVED Gimme More but it still didn't get her to #1. Obviously it's more than just her fans buying the song...

People thought Britney was done 4 years ago. She was at the lowest and darkest point in her life ever, with most of the public against her and thinking she was a joke, but she came back and tore up the charts with consecutive #1 first singles and #1 albums and won back the hearts of everyone. Not to mention she had the highest grossing tour of 2009 and the 5th highest grossing female tour of all time that same year. Her success is showing no signs of slowing down...

You also need to factor in what else is in the charts - you mentioned Firework and Grenade, both of which have been out for a while now, and the competition in other releases isn't particularly strong, it's how any song gets to #1 - tactical marketing. As I said, it's a generic dance song filling the void in the generic dance song market at the moment - it's not going to be remembered as a Britney Spears classic in years to come. She was still in the limelight though, plenty of people make careers out of being complete idiots with hugely negative public images or become infamous for such behaviour (Katie Price, Perez Hilton, Lindsay Lohan...) - they go by the philosophy that any publicity is good publicity. She didn't 'win back the hearts of everyone' - she's a popstar whose problems spilled into the media, she's not the first and she won't be the last. As I said in my previous post, you're using past successes to justify this song which has nothing to do with any of those things. The song is generic dance crap, there is nothing wrong with liking that, it just seems silly to me that people are trying to put people down for stating that particular view.

[iRyan]

Originally Posted by Zee

You also need to factor in what else is in the charts - you mentioned Firework and Grenade, both of which have been out for a while now, and the competition in other releases isn't particularly strong, it's how any song gets to #1 - tactical marketing. As I said, it's a generic dance song filling the void in the generic dance song market at the moment - it's not going to be remembered as a Britney Spears classic in years to come. She was still in the limelight though, plenty of people make careers out of being complete idiots with hugely negative public images or become infamous for such behaviour (Katie Price, Perez Hilton, Lindsay Lohan...) - they go by the philosophy that any publicity is good publicity. She didn't 'win back the hearts of everyone' - she's a popstar whose problems spilled into the media, she's not the first and she won't be the last. As I said in my previous post, you're using past successes to justify this song which has nothing to do with any of those things. The song is generic dance crap, there is nothing wrong with liking that, it just seems silly to me that people are trying to put people down for stating that particular view.

I definitely wouldn't say the competition is not strong - Avril, Kanye, and Jay-Z (as I said) are very popular in the US and have all had multiple #1 singles. Grenade and Firework have been out for weeks now but they are peaking and are on a roll. Constant radio airplay and strong digital downloads clearly make them competition.

I beg to differ that Hold It Against Me has no chance of becoming a Britney classic, especially if it is widely successful, but we'll see. It's YOUR opinion that it's a generic dance song, it doesn't make it a fact. It's certainly less generic than any other song on pop radio right now in America.

Hah, but the thing is she never MADE a career out of infamous behavior. Everyone knows she was an international pop superstar before her breakdown. She rose, then fell, then rose back up again. It's not like she's famous and popular because of what happens in the media. If anything those negative stories hurt her image way more than help it. The point is, she came back from an extremely dark place in her life and people were endeared to that, that she was able to finally pull herself together and get back up again.

I'm rivaling the fact that you think it's generic dance crap, because I disagree, and I'm letting you know WHY I disagree and why I think it's not.

[Z]

Originally Posted by iRyan

I definitely wouldn't say the competition is not strong - Avril, Kanye, and Jay-Z (as I said) are very popular in the US and have all had multiple #1 singles. Grenade and Firework have been out for weeks now but they are peaking and are on a roll. Constant radio airplay and strong digital downloads clearly make them competition.

I beg to differ that Hold It Against Me has no chance of becoming a Britney classic, especially if it is widely successful, but we'll see. It's YOUR opinion that it's a generic dance song, it doesn't make it a fact. It's certainly less generic than any other song on pop radio right now in America.

Hah, but the thing is she never MADE a career out of infamous behavior. Everyone knows she was an international pop superstar before her breakdown. She rose, then fell, then rose back up again. It's not like she's famous and popular because of what happens in the media. If anything those negative stories hurt her image way more than help it. The point is, she came back from an extremely dark place in her life and people were endeared to that, that she was able to finally pull herself together and get back up again.

I'm rivaling the fact that you think it's generic dance crap, because I disagree, and I'm letting you know WHY I disagree and why I think it's not.

You've not actually said anything that says to me why exactly you like it - in that post you exaggerated the competition in the charts at the moment, argued that it's not generic, spoken about how she didn't make a career out of being a mess and not one thing about the song itself. Do you see the point that I'm making? You're clearly a fan and that's great, I'm glad she's making music because all fans want is to hear their favourite singer/band release new material, and for a lot of people she makes them happy - but from an entirely neutral point of view (that is to say - someone who enjoys some of her music but wouldn't call himself a fan) I'm saying the song is very boring, it's lacking something to make it pack a punch and a few people in this thread are vastly exaggerating how good the song is and trying to back their arguments up with figures... by generic, I mean that it reminds me far too much of all the other songs she's released in the past couple of years - 3, Gimme More If U Seek Amy, that sort of 'I'm singing about being slutty and there's a thumping beat behind the song' sound. Excuse me for generalising, but that's what I'm meaning.

Lindsay Lohan didn't make a career out of a drug addiction, but that aspect of her life has come to define her and has kept her famous. Britney Spears' career's been prolonged purely because she went mad just as her career was stalling. The hype will disappear in a couple of years, just like it did before. On the contrary, I would say that she IS famous because of the media - they like to make and break people. I wouldn't say people were endeared to her, I think people were more fascinated by her trainwreck performance at the VMAs for example than rooting her on... She spent a few years turning herself into a complete joke and has brushed it under the carpet by being outrageous in her songs.

Avril Lavigne's been misfiring for years, and a Kanye West/Jay Z collaboration is hardly the most inspiring opposition to a dance track. The song, as I said, fills a hole, because the dance track niche has been lacking somewhat in new material for a while. Firework's been out for ages, I don't know about Grenade, but it's hardly strong competition anymore. Britney Spears has released it at a time when not much else in the way of competition is releasing, that's why it's doing SO well - if she released it up against other pop heavyweights then I doubt it'd grab #1 in many places.

I think the song's good for what it is, I just find it a bit of a joke that people such as yourself are throwing all this irrelevant information about her previous successes around like they have any impact on her new song...