[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by KG.

Have you come out yet LeatherTrumpet?

calling someone gay as a slur is actually homophobic and does not belong in this debate

[karezza]

No-one is gay apart from Quentin Tarantino.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

they dont have the same upbringing, that is why children differ greatly in character, it depends on the relationship of the parents at crucial stages of their development - this can change greatly from one year to the next and explains why siblings can be very different but be just 2 years apart

It may not be exactly the same but in most cases kids growing up in the same household with the same parents will have very similar upbringings.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by angus58

It depends on whether you believe homosexuality is a learned behaviour, in which case all that is required is cognitive behaviour therapy to sort it out Personally, I am of the belief it is biologically innate and genetic. Scientific researchers estimate that homosexuality is present in around 10% of the population and there is a similar percentage throughout the animal kingdom - there is documented scientific evidence of it being present in over 400 species. That being the case, it would follow that a person doesn't CHOOSE to be gay, they just ARE. If sexual orientation is determined within the womb, why castigate a person just for being who they were born to be?

scientist need not have to estimate as a recent survey with a whopping sample size of 450,000 found that 1.5% is gay. gayness in animals is often t=related to dominance and lack of female or male suitors and it is very difficult to draw comparisons from the animal world if we dont for any other types of behavior.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...-population-uk

[karezza]

We are all Thetans. All sexualities are in every Thetan.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It may not be exactly the same but in most cases kids growing up in the same household with the same parents will have very similar upbringings.

by similar you are meaning all the other things bar parental relationships

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

by similar you are meaning all the other things bar parental relationships

I suppose so, and I do see what you're trying to say but I don't think what relationship you have with your parents would determine if you're gay or not. personally I think it's something that happens when you're being made or formed or whatever the term is.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I suppose so, and I do see what you're trying to say but I don't think what relationship you have with your parents would determine if you're gay or not. personally I think it's something that happens when you're being made or formed or whatever the term is.

but lots of other sexual preferences are to do with circumstance: for instance when and where you have your first orgasm is a main determinant to your future sexual preference.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

but lots of other sexual preferences are to do with circumstance: for instance when and where you have your first orgasm is a main determinant to your future sexual preference.

And that's a proven fact is it? I never heard that before

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

And that's a proven fact is it? I never heard that before

Books by Desmond Morris

The Naked Ape (1967) — an unabashed look at the human species. The book is notable for its focus on humanity's animalistic qualities and our similarity with other apes. Reprinted many times and in many languages, it continues to be a best-seller.
The Human Zoo (1969) — a continuation of the previous book, analysing human behaviour in big modern societies and their resemblance to animal behaviour in captivity.
Intimate Behaviour (1971) — this book examines and analyses any physical contact acted out by human animals. From clapping, to having a hair cut, to hand jive, to patting on the back, to hugging, to babe suckling, to copulation...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Books by Desmond Morris

The Naked Ape (1967) — an unabashed look at the human species. The book is notable for its focus on humanity's animalistic qualities and our similarity with other apes. Reprinted many times and in many languages, it continues to be a best-seller.
The Human Zoo (1969) — a continuation of the previous book, analysing human behaviour in big modern societies and their resemblance to animal behaviour in captivity.
Intimate Behaviour (1971) — this book examines and analyses any physical contact acted out by human animals. From clapping, to having a hair cut, to hand jive, to patting on the back, to hugging, to babe suckling, to copulation...

well, I can't really comment on those as I haven't read them but I don't know is sexual behaviour and sexual orientation the same thing tbh

[Angus]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

scientist need not have to estimate as a recent survey with a whopping sample size of 450,000 found that 1.5% is gay. gayness in animals is often t=related to dominance and lack of female or male suitors and it is very difficult to draw comparisons from the animal world if we dont for any other types of behavior.

I mentioned the animal kingdom to emphasise that homosexuality is a natural occurrence across all species, not an aberration that occurs only in humans, nor is it dependent upon upbringing or environment etc since it is an innate, biological and genetic fact of life. If sexual orientation is determined before birth, it can hardly be a learned behaviour.

[Shaun]

karezza and LT in the same thread. too much.

[Tom4784]

I believe it's a random genetic factor, you can't learn or unlearn homosexuality just like you can't learn or unlearn Hetrosexuality. Sexuality just is, nothing can affect it either way.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Books by Desmond Morris

The Naked Ape (1967) — an unabashed look at the human species. The book is notable for its focus on humanity's animalistic qualities and our similarity with other apes. Reprinted many times and in many languages, it continues to be a best-seller.
The Human Zoo (1969) — a continuation of the previous book, analysing human behaviour in big modern societies and their resemblance to animal behaviour in captivity.
Intimate Behaviour (1971) — this book examines and analyses any physical contact acted out by human animals. From clapping, to having a hair cut, to hand jive, to patting on the back, to hugging, to babe suckling, to copulation...

Desmond Morris is a Zoologist and his main area of expertise lies in animal behaviour, including that of humans. He is not qualified to comment on the biology or genetics of sexual orientation.

[KG.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

calling someone gay as a slur is actually homophobic and does not belong in this debate

I just thought this obsession with homosexuality you have was a bit suspect, that's all

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Originally Posted by Shaun

karezza and LT in the same thread. too much.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by KG.

I just thought this obsession with homosexuality you have was a bit suspect, that's all

It's probably the most debated subject in this area and there are 2 good stories in the media. Again, however, you debase the discussion by using homosexuality as a slur to put down a poster.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by angus58

Desmond Morris is a Zoologist and his main area of expertise lies in animal behaviour, including that of humans. He is not qualified to comment on the biology or genetics of sexual orientation.

oh jeez, are you serious? read his books and reconsider. lol

[KG.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

It's probably the most debated subject in this area and there are 2 good stories in the media. Again, however, you debase the discussion by using homosexuality as a slur to put down a poster.

Lol, you don't debate, you speak your opinion as truth with no consideration for any other argument, that isn't what a debate is about.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by KG.

Lol, you don't debate, you speak your opinion as truth with no consideration for any other argument, that isn't what a debate is about.

if i spoke my opinion as untruths what would they then be?

do you just mean you dont like what I say as they dont fit your world view?

[Grimnir]

All human behaviour is learned. From the day we are born the brain starts to receive information and is conditioned throughout our life to create our personality which includes our sexuality.

Sex is all in the mind. Ask yourself this question - what turns me on and makes me sexually stimulated. Think of everything, then ask yourself why? Its because the brain became conditioned to associate that thought with sexual arousal.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

All human behaviour is learned. From the day we are born the brain starts to receive information and is conditioned throughout our life to create our personality which includes our sexuality.

Sex is all in the mind. Ask yourself this question - what turns me on and makes me sexually stimulated. Think of everything, then ask yourself why? Its because the brain became conditioned to associate that thought with sexual arousal.

Good post

and we are finding more and more that males and females are mostly similar and that all the differences are learned (just think of the stereotypes "girls like... or girls are good at...)

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

All human behaviour is learned. From the day we are born the brain starts to receive information and is conditioned throughout our life to create our personality which includes our sexuality.

Sex is all in the mind. Ask yourself this question - what turns me on and makes me sexually stimulated. Think of everything, then ask yourself why? Its because the brain became conditioned to associate that thought with sexual arousal.

I agree with your post but I think orientation and behaviour are different. I don't think people learn to be heterosexual anymore than people learn to be homosexual