[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

So what does god do?

he makes it and then nothing?


Its worse than a bad sci fi movie at best

I can't answer that because I am not certain there is a God anyway.The Bible though states that as almost a yes,God takes a back seat,free will given totally to Humans to protect the World and all in it or to ruin it.

The vast majority would want to protect and nurture the Earth,a minority seem determined to destroy it.

The Bible adds that 'one' day the World will end, that will be when 'God' whoever or whatever they may be will then intervene and pick up the pieces.

It's a bit like the perfect in-laws and Parents, who are always there to listen as to problems or good times in a marriage but hold their tongues and never interfere,in that the couple have decided the path they are on,it's only if all goes horribly wrong in time that then those Parents are there to pick up the pieces.

As I said I have no major religious beliefs, I don't know,I was only pointing out what was in the Bible.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I can't answer that because I am not certain there is a God anyway.The Bible though states that as almost a yes,God takes a back seat,free will given totally to Humans to protect the World and all in it or to ruin it.

The vast majority would want to protect and nurture the Earth,a minority seem determined to destroy it.

The Bible adds that 'one' day the World will end, that will be when 'God' whoever or whatever they may be will then intervene and pick up the pieces.

It's a bit like the perfect in-laws and Parents, who are always there to listen as to problems or good times in a marriage but hold their tongues and never interfere,in that the couple have decided the path they are on,it's only if all goes horribly wrong in time that then those Parents are there to pick up the pieces.

As I said I have no major religious beliefs, I don't know,I was only pointing out what was in the Bible.

Your not certain there is a god?

What would even give you even the smallest inkling there was as there is and has never been the smallest iota of evidence?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Your not certain there is a god?

What would even give you even the smallest inkling there was as there is and has never been the smallest iota of evidence?

For goodness sake, I am not certain there is a God but I am not certain there is not a God either.

If you can prove to me here and now that there isn't one, fine.
The thing is we can hold a view there is, or not, or like most people there can be doubt on either side but it cannot be proven that there wasn't, isn't or always will be a God.

At the end of the day though as to this thread, if praying to a Deity helps people who have lost loved ones, then I see nothing wrong at all with that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

For goodness sake, I am not certain there is a God but I am not certain there is not a God either.

If you can prove to me here and now that there isn't one, fine.
The thing is we can hold a view there is, or not, or like most people there can be doubt on either side but it cannot be proven that there wasn't, isn't or always will be a God.

At the end of the day though as to this thread, if praying to a Deity helps people who have lost loved ones, then I see nothing wormg at all with that.

There is no need to prove the non existence of anything. Like unicorns, dragons, space monkeys, turd eskimo ninjas

Praying to a diety who we are told can so anything, crated everything including man and who loves us all dearly but sits back and lets this happen is sick and wrong and should not be encouraged.

read below for your amusement.

Let's agree that there is no empirical evidence showing that God exists.
If you think about it as a rational person, this lack of evidence is startling. There is not one bit of empirical evidence indicating that today's "God", nor any other contemporary god, nor any god of the past, exists. In addition we know that:

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, we would talk about the "science of God" rather than "faith in God".
If we had scientific proof of God's existence, the study of God would be a scientific endeavor rather than a theological one.
If we had scientific proof of God's existence, all religious people would be aligning on the God that had been scientifically proven to exist. Instead there are thousands of gods and religions.
The reason for this lack of evidence is easy for any unbiased observer to see. The reason why there is no empirical evidence for God is because God is imaginary.

http://godisimaginary.com/i11.htm

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

There is no need to prove the non existence of anything. Like unicorns, dragons, space monkeys, turd eskimo ninjas

Praying to a diety who we are told can so anything, crated everything including man and who loves us all dearly but sits back and lets this happen is sick and wrong and should not be encouraged.

read below for your amusement.

Let's agree that there is no empirical evidence showing that God exists.
If you think about it as a rational person, this lack of evidence is startling. There is not one bit of empirical evidence indicating that today's "God", nor any other contemporary god, nor any god of the past, exists. In addition we know that:

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, we would talk about the "science of God" rather than "faith in God".
If we had scientific proof of God's existence, the study of God would be a scientific endeavor rather than a theological one.
If we had scientific proof of God's existence, all religious people would be aligning on the God that had been scientifically proven to exist. Instead there are thousands of gods and religions.
The reason for this lack of evidence is easy for any unbiased observer to see. The reason why there is no empirical evidence for God is because God is imaginary.

http://godisimaginary.com/i11.htm

While I agree with most of your post, I suppose it comes down to the question "How are we here then" I know there's the big bang theory and all that but then you have to ask "Well where did the stuff that banged come from" etc etc.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

There is no need to prove the non existence of anything. Like unicorns, dragons, space monkeys, turd eskimo ninjas etc. etc. etc................

http://godisimaginary.com/i11.htm

I watched My Name Is Earl last night, and The Crabman came out with something I felt was thought-provoking and profound. He said "In times of great stress, people give heightened significance to random acts of physics". Made me think of you LT... I thought you'd kind of like it.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I watched My Name Is Earl last night, and The Crabman came out with something I felt was thought-provoking and profound. He said "In times of great stress, people give heightened significance to random acts of physics". Made me think of you LT... I thought you'd kind of like it.

The Crabman is amazing

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The Crabman is amazing

He's like a funky prophet.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Livia

I watched My Name Is Earl last night, and The Crabman came out with something I felt was thought-provoking and profound. He said "In times of great stress, people give heightened significance to random acts of physics". Made me think of you LT... I thought you'd kind of like it.

I like the true story of the plane in NY that was heading into the Hudson River. On one seat you have a jewish guy who is praying with his eyes closed and next to him is a guy reading the safety card about what to do if the plane crashes into water...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

While I agree with most of your post, I suppose it comes down to the question "How are we here then" I know there's the big bang theory and all that but then you have to ask "Well where did the stuff that banged come from" etc etc.

It does not as it would be the wrong question to ask if you understand the big bang and to try and attribute an answer to some great god would be preposterous

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I like the true story of the plane in NY that was heading into the Hudson River. On one seat you have a jewish guy who is praying with his eyes closed and next to him is a guy reading the safety card about what to do if the plane crashes into water...

Haha... excellent.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

It does not as it would be the wrong question to ask if you understand the big bang and to try and attribute an answer to some great god would be preposterous

I don't understand the big bang theory at all but I'm assuming that there had to be something there for it to happen? Anyway, I was reading this book Shantaram and I loved the idea about God and life etc that he had in this book, here's a snippet of it :

Spoiler:

"The universe," he continued, "this universe that we know, began in almost absolute simplicity, and it has been getting more complex for about fifteen billion years. In another billion years it will be still more complex than it is now. In five billion, in ten billion -- it is always getting more complex. It is moving toward...something. It is moving toward some kind of ultimate complexity. We might not get there. An atom of hydrogen might not get there, or a leaf, or a man, or a planet might not get there, to that ultimate complexity. But we are all moving towards it -- everything in the universe is moving towards it. And that final complexity, that thing we are all moving to, is what I choose to call God. If you don't like that word, God, call it the Ultimate Complexity. Whatever you call it, the whole universe is moving toward it."

I thought it was an interesting theory

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

There is no need to prove the non existence of anything. Like unicorns, dragons, space monkeys, turd eskimo ninjas

Praying to a diety who we are told can so anything, crated everything including man and who loves us all dearly but sits back and lets this happen is sick and wrong and should not be encouraged.

read below for your amusement.

Let's agree that there is no empirical evidence showing that God exists.
If you think about it as a rational person, this lack of evidence is startling. There is not one bit of empirical evidence indicating that today's "God", nor any other contemporary god, nor any god of the past, exists. In addition we know that:

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, we would talk about the "science of God" rather than "faith in God".
If we had scientific proof of God's existence, the study of God would be a scientific endeavor rather than a theological one.
If we had scientific proof of God's existence, all religious people would be aligning on the God that had been scientifically proven to exist. Instead there are thousands of gods and religions.
The reason for this lack of evidence is easy for any unbiased observer to see. The reason why there is no empirical evidence for God is because God is imaginary.

http://godisimaginary.com/i11.htm

I have to say, you are on form today LT, while I think what you say above does not in itself prove completely there has not been,is or always will be some being that is for want of a better word a 'God',what you list above does make a very strong case against there being so,I admit that.

[InOne]

Just wait till ExProximo gets his hands on this thread LT. He'll have a field day

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by InOne

Just wait till ExProximo gets his hands on this thread LT. He'll have a field day

Yes a 1000 word essay on diddly squat

cant wait


(but he does have the best avatar bar none, damn him)

[Redway]

Silly thread, IMO.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Redway

Silly thread, IMO.

The thread is provoking the discussion about whether or not God exists. It's an age-old question and hardly silly. Didn't you post a thread yesterday asking whether racists have a place in our society? now THAT'S a silly thread.

[Ammi]

I think praying is just a robot like reaction to the people who do believe in God. They really don't know what to do, there isn't anything they can do, so they pray, probably what they do in any crisis or faced with an atrocity like this. I don't suppose they even do know what they're praying for. Lots of people don't live in a world of reality they live in a world of faith, it opts them out of lots of things because their God makes all the decisions anyway. I'm not really criticising though, because having faith gives them strength and helps them get through bad stuff, different strokes...........and all that

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I like the true story of the plane in NY that was heading into the Hudson River. On one seat you have a jewish guy who is praying with his eyes closed and next to him is a guy reading the safety card about what to do if the plane crashes into water...

Ha good story, but the plane's going to crash anyway so I guess both are pointless, but maybe comforting and distracting to the people doing them

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by rhino

I think praying is just a robot like reaction to the people who do believe in God. They really don't know what to do, there isn't anything they can do, so they pray, probably what they do in any crisis or faced with an atrocity like this. I don't suppose they even do know what they're praying for. Lots of people don't live in a world of reality they live in a world of faith, it opts them out of lots of things because their God makes all the decisions anyway. I'm not really criticising though, because having faith gives them strength and helps them get through bad stuff, different strokes...........and all that

Really good post rhino as is Livia's too. The last part as to faith and praying giving these people strength to cope with this, is a good thing,anything that helps in these tragedies is good.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Really good post rhino as is Livia's too. The last part as to faith and praying giving these people strength to cope with this, is a good thing,anything that helps in these tragedies is good.

Yes Joey, mind you just because we believe in something, doesn't make it real