[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14474429

An e-petition calling for rioters to lose their benefits has hit 100,000 signatures and become the first to be considered for a Commons debate.

It has dwarfed others on the government website, which has struggled to deal with the volume of people accessing it.

The petition has now been formally referred to a committee which will decide whether to hold a debate.

It comes as English councils say they will seek to evict social tenants found guilty of taking part in disorder.

The e-petitions website has been closed to address its technical problems and is due to re-open on Friday.

But the Cabinet Office, which runs it, has confirmed the e-petition submitted by Stephen Mains, saying "convicted London rioters should loose [sic] all benefits" has reached 100,000 signatures.

The threshold for the petition to be referred to the Commons backbench business committee, which can table debates, is 100,000.

Mr Mains's petition has attracted vast numbers of signatures in just a few days. Its nearest rival, a bid launched by Conservative MP Robert Halfon to cut the price of petrol, was well behind it with 24,000 signatures on Wednesday.

Mr Mains's petition argues: "No taxpayer should have to contribute to those who have destroyed property, stolen from their community and shown a disregard for the country that provides for them."

If the backbench committee agrees to table a Commons debate, there is no guarantee the law will be changed.

Power to the people (sort of) !

[Boothy]

What a fucking stupid idea.

We've got a bunch of people rioting because they're poor. I know, let's take all their money off them and make them poorer.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Boothy

What a fucking stupid idea.

We've got a bunch of people rioting because they're poor. I know, let's take all their money off them and make them poorer.

Well, what would YOU do ?

[Boothy]

Originally Posted by Omah

Well, what would YOU do ?

Community service. Make them clean up the mess they've created.

That, and prison sentences for the worst offenders.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Boothy

Community service. Make them clean up the mess they've created.

That, and prison sentences for the worst offenders.

Both are expensive solutions, especially prison, where, additionally, the incarcerated obtain a "further education" in crime, which they will need since a criminal conviction will make them totally unemployable - in either case, the convicted and their families will continue to receive monetary and other benefits courtesy of the tax-payer .....

[InOne]

We could just shoot them all

[Enid]

Originally Posted by Boothy

What a fucking stupid idea.

We've got a bunch of people rioting because they're poor. I know, let's take all their money off them and make them poorer.

Nah, they're rioting 'cause they're opportunistic wankers.

I'm poor but I have a little something called respect for my community.

[joeysteele]

I personally am not in favour of things like this done in the heat of the moment.So I wouldn't sign up to this petition.

I would want a lot of advice and a long inquiry into the matter first. Having said that, I can see the logic in taking valuable possessions of the convicted.
Let the heat die down then make rational and well thought out decisions on further punishments if deemed necessary.

[Boothy]

Originally Posted by Omah

Both are expensive solutions, especially prison, where, additionally, the incarcerated obtain a "further education" in crime, which they will need since a criminal conviction will make them totally unemployable - in either case, the convicted and their families will continue to receive monetary and other benefits courtesy of the tax-payer .....

Both true points, however, they're both better alternatives than simply taking away their benefits.

They won't have a house to live in. Leave them homeless, poor job prospects and feeling even more like outcasts than they currently do. I fail to see any long term positives.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by InOne

We could just shoot them all

That is my preferred solution, but, in the interests of humanity, I will settle for hanging the ringleaders and shipping the rest off to a prison island in the Outer Hebrides with the minimum of supervision, shelter and provisions for a period not exceeding 10 years - any survivors would then be totally mad and could be shot like rabid dogs .....

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Boothy

What a fucking stupid idea.

We've got a bunch of people rioting because they're poor. I know, let's take all their money off them and make them poorer.

This, you cut off their only source of income and there is just going to be greater discontent and resentment, probably leading to more riots, what kind of a solution is that

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Omah

Both are expensive solutions, especially prison, where, additionally, the incarcerated obtain a "further education" in crime, which they will need since a criminal conviction will make them totally unemployable - in either case, the convicted and their families will continue to receive monetary and other benefits courtesy of the tax-payer .....

Riots are expensive as well you know, long term this will cause much more problems

[CharlieO]

Ship them all over to africa and bring over all those kids who love to go to school over here so they can make something of themselves.

[keithafc]

Originally Posted by Enid

Nah, they're rioting 'cause they're opportunistic wankers.

I'm poor but I have a little something called respect for my community.

+1.

The daughter of a millionaire was poor? News to me.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I personally am not in favour of things like this done in the heat of the moment.So I wouldn't sign up to this petition.

I would want a lot of advice and a long inquiry into the matter first. Having said that, I can see the logic in taking valuable possessions of the convicted.
Let the heat die down then make rational and well thought out decisions on further punishments if deemed necessary.

You're quite right, of course, but "laissez-faire" has been one of the causes of the current "problems" - in the past few decades there have been massive changes in technology, wealth and social behaviour which successive governments have failed to curtail, control or even consider - this article dicusses some of the issues, including Welfare dependence, Social exclusion, Lack of fathers, Spending cuts, Weak policing, Racism, Gangsta rap and culture, Consumerism, Opportunism and Technology & social networking :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14483149

The competing arguments used to explain the riots

Many theories have been posited about the underlying causes of the riots in England - from moral decay to excessive consumerism. Here two criminologists give their views on some of the arguments.

[InOne]

All I know is there is no real way to "help" these kind of people. If they're doing that at 11 and god knows what age they won't change.

[Boothy]

Originally Posted by keithafc

+1.

The daughter of a millionaire was poor? News to me.

That's one person out of how many?

Of course there are going to be individual cases, some people like the thrill of being rebellious.

If we're gonna give individual examples then I'll post this.

Youtube video

"It's the rich people, we're just showing the rich people we can do what we want"

They've got an 'us vs them' mentality, taking away the only money they've got will reinforce this.

[keithafc]

Originally Posted by Boothy

That's one person out of how many?

Of course there are going to be individual cases, some people like the thrill of being rebellious.

If we're gonna give individual examples then I'll post this.

Youtube video

"It's the rich people, we're just showing the rich people we can do what we want"

They've got an 'us vs them' mentality, taking away the only money they've got will reinforce this.

No disrespect but we are hearing stories of lots of people who are well off and have jobs and they still looted. I agree with the view of that people just joined in and thought they could get away with it.

I admit there is people out in society who don't have a lot but you have to earn it. You can't just go and loot shops and burn buildings down. Lets limit the excuses and get this country back on its feet again.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by InOne

All I know is there is no real way to "help" these kind of people. If they're doing that at 11 and god knows what age they won't change.

Exactly, they're just following their "role-models" - their brothers and sisters, already thugs on the street ..... they have no moral code or social responsibility - like the lady said "they're feral rats" .....

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Omah

Exactly, they're just following their "role-models" - their brothers and sisters, already thugs on the street ..... they have no moral code or social responsibility - like the lady said "they're feral rats" .....

Pretty much, they can't expect us to care if they're poor and there is no jobs when they ruin hard working peoples businesses

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14500869

A 68-year-old man who was critically injured as he tried he tried to stamp out a fire during riots in west London has died, Scotland Yard has said.

Richard Mannington Bowes suffered head injuries in a violent attack in Ealing on Monday night and was left in a coma.

Police said he was violently assaulted and knocked to the ground.

They have issued a CCTV image of a suspect they want to speak to about the assault on Mr Bowes. A murder investigation has begun.

Jeez .....

Mayhem AND murder .....

[Beastie]

These gang members are all "friends". Why not just bung ALL of them in a jail cell together??

Human rights has to change!! What about the shop/business owners rights?? What rights do they have after everything they have worked for has been destroyed?

Why didn't the gangs just target the police and not innocent people from the streets? It's all pathetic.

The laws need to be changed drastically in the UK. Too much pussy footing around!

Yeah if you don't have a job.. why not volunteer to do something then that could lead to a job!!

Suppose it doesn't help bankers getting all these bonuses. The rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer.

Or why not just ship these gangs off to China or somewhere? China would sort them out!

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by Omah

Exactly, they're just following their "role-models" - their brothers and sisters, already thugs on the street ..... they have no moral code or social responsibility - like the lady said "they're feral rats" .....

I think most of the time it all starts off at home. Yeah peer pressure can get in the way as well.

These kids need a good relationship with their mother/father or both of them! I don't think it's all down to "because there is a load of single mums". As long as the kid has a good relationship or good mother/father to look up to then most of the time they should learn right from wrong and have good morals.

People need to stop breeding when they can't afford it either. Who cares if a 12 year old takes the pill? A better solution than getting pregnant!

[Ammi]

And if their benefits were taken away from them, what next, what would it solve, how would it make the situation better. Not all of them are on benefits anyway and the ones who are have enough for the essentials in life. But no, they want all the nice little extras as well, you know the things people have to work and save for. They're opportunist scum who saw a way of getting it and were brave enough because they had a mob along side them. They need to be involved in the clean up, working alongside the people who's lives theyv'e destroyed. They need to understand how hard people work to create something and make a living. They need to be made to understand what the hell they've done. Taking away what little they have will just create more crime and it's inhumane, whatever they have done. Make them work HARD, like the rest of us do, to help put their wrongs right. As for the murders, give them the maximum penalties. This is not about rich v poor, lets not make it about employedv unemployed. It's theft, plain and simple on a grand scale. They joined in beacause they could and thought they would get away with it and a lot of them will

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Enid

Nah, they're rioting 'cause they're opportunistic wankers.

I'm poor but I have a little something called respect for my community.

I absolutely love this post. It's so easy for people to blame all this on being poor and having no money, but that wasn't the reason the riots started, nor is it an excuse to act the way they were.

I was watching a bit of an interview with some girl who had been looting and her response to why she did it was 'because i can't afford these things'.

I was shocked. I can't afford most things, I don't go looting to get them though. I work hard and save my money. It's called life. These people need to learn that.