[vesavius]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I have answered your points so have no intention if doing so again, there would be no point because like you towards me, I will never give the answer you want to see simply becasue I do not see things your way and you do not mine either.

I didn't ask you to answer them again...

The first answer you gave underlined completely my point of the double standards being how AGAIN in the defense of Aaron clearly. It requires no re-answering from you.

The second answer didn't answer my question at all and missed the point, as I said...so it wouldn't really be re-answering to reply according to the question... it would be just answering.

The third answer I agreed with completely. It again requires no more re-answering again from you

Despite what I didn't ask for though, I am still interested in a replyto the second point though, if you have time, which I assume you do because your here making statements to rationalise and support Aaron's corner.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Jay even outright admitted that he wasnt being 'real' in the house

Give em enough rope...

You forgot to mention his answer when asked why. Because he can't buy his won booze...because he can't go to the gym...because he can't fling something when he's angry...yeah, what a fake.

[Bluerang1]

Neither to be honest. Hate Aaron so yeah but that way too much to spend on a gift. Not for TV though, they just wanted to be nice.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Luke31

How did he manage to spend Ł55,000 on a car then?

I dunno, we know nothing about the story or even if it's true or he made it up for the auditions, but I don't see the relevance of that comment; are you saying he must be loaded so spending Ł500 is no big deal?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by jet

You forgot to mention his answer when asked why. Because he can't buy his won booze...because he can't go to the gym...because he can't fling something when he's angry...yeah, what a fake.

Because he cant s**t in the kettle too. You forgot that one.

[MachoPoodle]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I think people are misrepresenting that comment and taking it out of context, he was trying to say that things are completely different in there than they are in the real world where he wouldn't spend that much because he wouldn't have the means to do so

That's how I interpreted what he said also. Especially since it's not exactly the first time he's talked about the difference between being in the house and normal life, he's been doing that all series.

I must say I'm not fond of how the use of the word "real" seem to have changed nowadays. It often sounds like it's the equivalent of someone behaving the same way always, no matter the situation or company. To me that's not being real, it's being a self centered prick.

[Dastardley]

Originally Posted by Luke31

Was totally for the camera's. they all said no in the diary room. but once out of there, they thought "hang on we can use this to our advantage" hence why Jay instead of saying it infront of Louise and Aaron, he decided to nod his head to tell Louise to follow him into the bathroom, where they could discuss it behind Aaron's back.

BB though was worse in all of this. tonight they edited out some very key moments. they decided to not show Louise and Jay complaining about how greedy Alex is with her stuff. and Louise saying if you do something nice, it comes back to you. "in the form of extra votes"

and obviously edited out Jay telling Aaron, that BB told them to not tell Aaron about it. clearly BB had their ammo.

BB would prefer either Jay or Louise to win, they would be hoping they would keep their 'relationship' going for the OK magazine spread and the TV interviews...plus the news footage of the two being spotted at the various clubs and nightspots.....Thus keeping the show in the headlines longer. I don't think Aaron or either of the other two winning would generate the same after show interest therefor it's in BB's best interests for either of the two 'wind machines' to win it.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by MachoPoodle

That's how I interpreted what he said also. Especially since it's not exactly the first time he's talked about the difference between being in the house and normal life, he's been doing that all series.

I must say I'm not fond of how the use of the word "real" seem to have changed nowadays. It often sounds like it's the equivalent of someone behaving the same way always, no matter the situation or company. To me that's not being real, it's being a self centered prick.

Yeah that's a good point actually

[Jamsey]

Originally Posted by vesavius

No, you missed my question.

What obligation did they have to convince Aaron to change his mind and spend a bit of money?

Why didn't Aaron approach them and suggest that they do so?

You keep making this point and it does annoy me somewhat.

They have a social obligation, not to convince him to spend, but to WARN him that they are going to.

How would you feel if a brother/sister/friend turned up you a parents/friend's birthday with a Ł500 gift when you had all already agreed to spend say Ł10?

You would be totally justified in not spending the money but you would still feel guity and annoyed at the other person for not warning you first.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I didn't ask you to answer them again...

The first answer you gave underlined completely my point of the double standards being how AGAIN in the defense of Aaron clearly. It requires no re-answering from you.

The second answer didn't answer my question at all and missed the point, as I said...so it wouldn't really be re-answering to reply according to the question... it would be just answering.

The third answer I agreed with completely. It again requires no more re-answering again from you

Despite what I didn't ask for though, I am still interested in a replyto the second point though, if you have time, which I assume you do because your here making statements to rationalise and support Aaron's corner.

I will endeavour to try again but feel I am wasting me energy and time.

From my perspective, had I been Jay or Louise, all 3 of them had been called to the diary room to choose a gift for Tom and Alex,'all' 3 of them said the gifts presented were way too much and refused,then left the diary room.

Had I been one of the 3 and I felt I wanted to change my mind and get the gifts,I personally because all 3 of us were called to the diary room in the first place, I would have got the other 2 together and said I felt we should get the gifts.
That is the obligation I feel they owed to Aaron, he had no idea they had changed their minds and they did not give him the chance to change his mind by telling him that they had changed theirs.

Simple courtesy and since originally BB called all 3 to the diary room,that would have been the better course to take. In my opinion.

No double standards,had Aaron gone in and said he wanted to get the gifts and not consulted Jay and Louise as to his change of mind then I would have said that was equally wrong too.

This is not likely the answer you want or will accept but it's the only one I am going to give. Best to leave it there I think as we will never agree on very much I doubt.

[jet]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Also....the mere fact that Louise and Jay told Alex and Tom the price of their gifts another desire to make them look good....

NO, only Louise did that. Jay looked embarrassed.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Let me ask you...

Did you condemn or support Aaron when he betrayed his agreement to the group over the face to face noms?

Also...

What obligation did Jay and Lou have to convince Aaron to spend some money on Alex and Tom? Just because they changed their minds, why do you think it was their jobs to change his?

Also...

Whatever their motivations, do you think it was good and fair for Aaron to spoil two birthdays because he was pissed off that his rivals had stolen a move on him?

what aaron did that night was sneaky and sly and it was virtually exactly the same as what louise and jay did to him tonight. i.e. agree with others to a deal then go back on your word at the last minute.

tonight I thought jay and louise especially did make a right horlicks out of what should have been a kind gesture. so in the end they looked a bit like prats. BUT that didnt necessarily make aaron look good. he too was a prat with his attitude and dragging yet another celebration into the gutter.

jay and louise have spent their own money the ONLY thing they did wrong was not consult aaron. that looked a bit silly. ok hed said no twice and told them to do what they liked but still I think they should have kept him informed, I would have through principle. ok they knew though as hed been in twice hed say no. but still

I think louise mentioning the Ł500 twice was cringeworthy and also aaron was bemused as tom thanked him. he could have easily told tom he hadnt contributed
I think all 3 looked prats in different ways .....louise mentioned the money didnt consult aaron - prat jay less so but didnt consult aaron and later lost his rag -prat
aaron endless pouting ruined yet another occasion and he should have ONLY really told jay off for not informing him, he had no real right to say the public would see them as a fake gesture. but aaron has throughout bitched about everyone direct to the public instead of to their face. but he lost hi srag tonight and crossed the line a bit. its not for him or anyone to say it was only for the public. maybe it was maybe it wasnt. maybe everything nice anyone does in there is for cameras? its big brother its articial reality. jays rant about chairs and windows was embarassing but also proved hes not preparing everything he says, he just says it.


BUT to prove I am a fair man overall Id say aaron came off best out of this situation. for once he pouted for a legitimate reason. trouble is when you cry wolf 50 times you lose credibility

after tonights fiasco Id say tom came out looking the best, again.

[Cromwell1900]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Jay even outright admitted that he wasnt being 'real' in the house

Give em enough rope...

His unguardedness expressed a thousand words.

His honesty asside though, he's probably a no crap kind of guy on the outside and ready to use his fists if he deems neccessary.

[Tribal Spaceman]

It was incredibly rude of Jay and Louise to go back and agree to get gifts for Alex and Tom when they'd all agreed it was too expensive to do so and decided to leave it. They should have told Aaron what they were doing at the very least. And did you notice they were only too happy to tell them exactly how much they'd spent as well? If I had Ł900 and my fellow housemates had thousands I wouldn't have given that much away just because Big Brother asked me to. Aaron said he hasn't even spent that much on his son, and the look of shock on his face at the very notion of doing so said it all, really. Jay and Louise still have thousands left, they won't even notice it, but for Aaron it was a much bigger deal.

I think it's immoral to spend that much on shoes or watches, but that's a whole other discussion.

Also Aaron looks so HOT when he sulks. Haha

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Jamsey

They have a social obligation, not to convince him to spend, but to WARN him that they are going to.

The same 'social obligation' that says you should communicate honestly and clearly to the group you have made an agreed plan with before changing your part in that plan?

Please...

Inventing 'social obligations' for Jay/Lou while ignoring them for Aaron....

[Jamsey]

Originally Posted by vesavius

The same 'social obligation' that says you should communicate honestly and clearly to the group you have made an agreed plan with before changing your part in that plan?

Please...

Inventing 'social obligations' for Jay/Lou while ignoring them for Aaron....

Are you saying they did not have a social obligation to WARN him they were buying the presents?

Because they did.

[slickster24]

How is it a good deed? It was for votes

Think about it for 1 ducking second. They said they had no 10k before, well now they do. How many close friends and family do they have? Id say 20 easily. 20 people that they care for and love more than Alex Tom. Now if they leave and buy them those types of gifts then **** that's the 10k done for. will jay or Lou spend the 10 k on mates and family? Not a ****ing chance

Alex is a joke too with that modeling lie.

Anybody stop and think about that?

[Cromwell1900]

Originally Posted by Jamsey

You keep making this point and it does annoy me somewhat.

They have a social obligation, not to convince him to spend, but to WARN him that they are going to.

How would you feel if a brother/sister/friend turned up you a parents/friend's birthday with a Ł500 gift when you had all already agreed to spend say Ł10?

You would be totally justified in not spending the money but you would still feel guity and annoyed at the other person for not warning you first.

This kind of all boils down to if you think Jay see's Aaron as a player. If Jay does then Social obligations be damned right? I'm pretty sure with all that's been going on over recent weeks there is plenty of reason for Jay to suspect Aaron's is a player. The correct thing was for Jay to tell him he's change his mind but being incorrect is a small crime when a game involving 50 grand is at stake.

[Jamsey]

Originally Posted by Cromwell1900

This kind of all boils down to if you think Jay see's Aaron as a player. If Jay does then Social obligations be damned right? I'm pretty sure with all that's been going on over recent weeks there is plenty of reason for Jay to suspect Aaron's is a player. The correct thing was for Jay to tell him he's change his mind but being incorrect is a small crime when a game involving 50 grand is at stake.

Not sure what you are saying.

Just so you are aware i am having a discussion on one part of the present-gate saga and not the whole thing, so that may be why I don't understand.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Jamsey

Are you saying they did not have a social obligation to WARN him they were buying the presents?

Because they did.

Ofc they didn't. Wheres the 'social obligation' that says that a person has to tell another person if they are buying a friend a present? Especially if the first person has said no already, repeatedly.

Aaron stated TWICE prior he didn't want to spend any of his money on Alex/Tom... Why on earth would anyone ask him a third time or include him in their plans... His feelings were clear.

Even if they had told him he probably would have said he felt 'emotionally blackmailed' but was going to 'stick by his principles' or some other victim drivel.

The end result wouldn't have changed. He still would have ruined the birthdays, simply for camera time.


Also, you avoided my question... I asked; The same 'social obligation' that says you should communicate honestly and clearly to the group you have made an agreed plan with before changing your part in that plan?

Why do you insist on 'social obligations' from others but not from Aaron?

[Jamsey]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Ofc they didn't. Wheres the 'social obligation' that says that a person has to tell another person if they are buying a friend a present? Especially if the first person has said no already, repeatedly.

Aaron stated TWICE prior he didn't want to spend any of his money on Alex/Tom... Why on earth would anyone ask him a third time or include him in their plans... His feelings were clear.

Even if they had told him he probably would have said he felt 'emotionally blackmailed' but was going to 'stick by his principles' or some other victim drivel.

The end result wouldn't have changed. He still would have ruined the birthdays, simply for camera time.


Also, you avoided my question... I asked; The same 'social obligation' that says you should communicate honestly and clearly to the group you have made an agreed plan with before changing your part in that plan?

Why do you insist on 'social obligations' from others but not from Aaron?

Both Jay and Louise agreed with him there not to spend any money, they should have told him when they decided to spend their money to avoid him feeling guilty or embarresed when they appeared with expensive gifts and he had nothing.

The example I gave aboves sums up what I meant very clearly.

As for what would have happend next, neither of us are mindreaders, so who knows?

I avoided your other question as;

A. I dont know what you are reffering too.
B. Even if I did I have a feeling it hasnt got much to do with our discussion.

I look foward to your reply, but I can't respond till tommorow, nighty night.

[the truth]

jay and louise made a few harmless misjudgements tonight. aaron though broke his word and a group agreement theyd all put each other up for nomination the previous week
he breaks the agreement without even telling them. that was disgraceful. that basically showed him to be a dishinest person. he of course manipulated it to try and look good. BUT all he had to do was tell the group before hand and not agree to the group voting in the first place.

[Cromwell1900]

Originally Posted by Jamsey

Not sure what you are saying.

Just so you are aware i am having a discussion on one part of the present-gate saga and not the whole thing, so that may be why I don't understand.

Oh yes i realize that,

I just think Jay probably tried to gain the upperhand over Aaron on this one, perhaps because he see's Aaron as a Gameplayer.

Social Obligation's are for Social situations, and not to be aplied imo where two people are playing games with each other in BB.

[Tribal Spaceman]

Oh whatever. Aaron IS Big Brother this year.

[vesavius]

Aaron, 'If you two want to, carry on, you take the glory"

He actually gives them the go ahead and makes it extremely clear he doesn't want to get involved.

I have no idea why Aaronites are making out that it was then somehow sneaky of Jay and Lou to do exactly what he told them to do.

It is all just so clear, and yet it's still twisted and rationalised by the 'faithfull'.