[Jack_]

I'm sorry but I'm still finding it hard to believe that anyone could condone the behaviour of this 'big man', I mean seriously it's just delusional.

There is no excuse for anybody other than senior relevant authorities to step in and use physical force to remove somebody from a certain situation, that is after all what they're employed for. It is nothing more than a pathetic attempt at showing off to other people. I've got news for you, and him - you are not security officers or the police force, you are regular people, customers of a train service, and you do not have any right whatsoever to intervene with issues that let's be honest, do not really concern you (no, being delayed is no excuse, as relevant authorities would still have sorted the problem), and you almost certainly do not have any right to use physical force against someone unless in self defence. Seeing as he didn't physically attack anyone at any point, and you are just a regular person, it is nothing to do with you, and that is that.

Innocent until proven guilty. No excuses for physical force/violence. Talk about sending the wrong message out...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Snowball

Most people including me, do agree that assault should be punishable.

The boyo wasn't assaulted. he was removed from a train.

With way too much force, by a random person who had nothing to do with it all and was just trying to show off (IMO of course )

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Snowball

Most people including me, do agree that assault should be punishable.

The boyo wasn't assaulted. he was removed from a train.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

The guy states he had been out and drinking. is there proof that this is due to the train incident or perhaps he was that pissed, he fell on his way home on foot.

After all........ the guy LIES about not getting his bag back..... so I'll hazard a guess that this was not as a result of him being chucked off the train either.

That's the thing with liars MTVN....... tell one lie and get caught out; and it weakens anything else you say.

[Jordan.]

Why would he still have fresh blood on his face? must have got home quick.

[MTVN]

How do you know he lied about not getting his bag, why couldn't he have two bags, one of the might have been in the compartment or something?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I'm sorry but I'm still finding it hard to believe that anyone could condone the behaviour of this 'big man', I mean seriously it's just delusional.

There is no excuse for anybody other than senior relevant authorities to step in and use physical force to remove somebody from a certain situation, that is after all what they're employed for. It is nothing more than a pathetic attempt at showing off to other people. I've got news for you, and him - you are not security officers or the police force, you are regular people, customers of a train service, and you do not have any right whatsoever to intervene with issues that let's be honest, do not really concern you (no, being delayed is no excuse, as relevant authorities would still have sorted the problem), and you almost certainly do not have any right to use physical force against someone unless in self defence. Seeing as he didn't physically attack anyone at any point, and you are just a regular person, it is nothing to do with you, and that is that.

Innocent until proven guilty. No excuses for physical force/violence. Talk about sending the wrong message out...

Really.... how does that work with bouncers then?

How does that work with people in pubs who have had one too many too drink, are becoming awkward, difficult and causing upset to other customers....... I know for absolute FACT ----- FACT, that the same type of 'Right, you're leaving NOW" and being man handled, takes place in pubs, clubs all over the UK night in, night out.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Snowball

We don't know if the conductor perhaps did offer the youth this option and that's where it began to kick off. The start of the clip seems to be whereby the 'discussion' has become a heated one.

For all we know, the conductor may have offered the guy the option and he told him to eff off that he had a ticket.....

Ah at last some common sense. Thats very true, nor do we know what excuses the youth gave, nor the conversation or tones of the conductor prior to whats shown on the clip.

There is lots we dont know.

But as admirable as you think the passenger who threw the youth off is, we do know he committed an assault on the youth. The only people allowed to "lay hands" on another person and physically remove them from a train are the police, transport police and duly authorised personnel in the execution of their duty.

This isnt a case of citizen's arrest. It is assault, pure and simple and as soon as some other numpty whispers the word compensation claim in the youths ear he will no doubt make a complaint. Such is life.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Snowball

Really.... how does that work with bouncers then?

How does that work with people in pubs who have had one too many too drink, are becoming awkward, difficult and causing upset to other customers....... I know for absolute FACT ----- FACT, that the same type of 'Right, you're leaving NOW" and being man handled, takes place in pubs, clubs all over the UK night in, night out.

Bouncers are trained to do that though, it is their job to remove people from pubs and clubs.

It is not the job of random passengers on trains to act the big man and throw others off.

Jack did mention the 'relevant autorities'...in the case of bars and clubs...that would be the bouncers. And if things escalated too much, then the police.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

How do you know he lied about not getting his bag, why couldn't he have two bags, one of the might have been in the compartment or something?

Call it a very educated guess..... how many students go out for a night out on the razz and have several bags with them?

Who is to say that even IF he had a 2nd/3rd bag, that he didn;t leave it somewhere else and didn't even board the train with it....after all, he and daddy confess he was out on the schwally......... does things to your memory that, as well as your balance.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Snowball

Really.... how does that work with bouncers then?

How does that work with people in pubs who have had one too many too drink, are becoming awkward, difficult and causing upset to other customers....... I know for absolute FACT ----- FACT, that the same type of 'Right, you're leaving NOW" and being man handled, takes place in pubs, clubs all over the UK night in, night out.

Am I seriously having to respond to this?

It works because bouncers are employed specifically with the job of removing people who are (or will start) causing trouble, using physical force if required. They are employed for that very reason. It is their job to do that.

For some strange reason I don't think the 'big man' was employed to sit on ScotRail train services waiting for someone not to pay their fare and for him to then throw them off the train. Can't say I've ever seen job advertisements for that.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Snowball

Call it a very educated guess..... how many students go out for a night out on the razz and have several bags with them?

Who is to say that even IF he had a 2nd/3rd bag, that he didn;t leave it somewhere else and didn't even board the train with it....after all, he and daddy confess he was out on the schwally......... does things to your memory that, as well as your balance.

A night on the razz? He went to an exam and had a couple of pints afterwards

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Snowball

Really.... how does that work with bouncers then?

How does that work with people in pubs who have had one too many too drink, are becoming awkward, difficult and causing upset to other customers....... I know for absolute FACT ----- FACT, that the same type of 'Right, you're leaving NOW" and being man handled, takes place in pubs, clubs all over the UK night in, night out.

And one point you have missed in your apparent patriotic fervour is in Scotland door staff are legally required to be licensed and trained.

The Security Industry Authority trains them not only in aspects of applicable law but also in basic restraint and manhandling techniques. That doesnt of course mean they will always act according to their training but they are authorised under scottish law and also local council bye laws to manhandle people if necessary in the pursuit of their duties.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Bouncers are trained to do that though, it is their job to remove people from pubs and clubs.

It is not the job of random passengers on trains to act the big man and throw others off.

Jack did mention the 'relevant autorities'...in the case of bars and clubs...that would be the bouncers. And if things escalated too much, then the police.

How do we know that the 'big man' wasn't such a person off duty? How do we know he was not a police officer off duty?

How do pubs deal with such things..... very few that I know off, wait for the relevant authorities to be contacted and respond. more often than not, the same force is used to remove them, and often - by other punters in the pub who have had enough. What's the difference then?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

A night on the razz? He went to an exam and had a couple of pints afterwards

Where does it say that?

'I had been out celebrating after an exam and I was half asleep on the train

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1gT7juz00

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Snowball

How do we know that the 'big man' wasn't such a person off duty? How do we know he was not a police officer off duty?

How do pubs deal with such things..... very few that I know off, wait for the relevant authorities to be contacted and respond. more often than not, the same force is used to remove them, and often - by other punters in the pub who have had enough. What's the difference then?

If he was an off duty copper he would have tried to calm the situation probably by explaining that he was a policeman, thats often enough to nip problems in the bud.

Again funny old thing policemen are taught about not escalating situations where possible, they are taught how to defuse situations by calm conversation etc.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Am I seriously having to respond to this?

It works because bouncers are employed specifically with the job of removing people who are (or will start) causing trouble, using physical force if required. They are employed for that very reason. It is their job to do that.

For some strange reason I don't think the 'big man' was employed to sit on ScotRail train services waiting for someone not to pay their fare and for him to then throw them off the train. Can't say I've ever seen job advertisements for that.

clearly you felt the answer to be yes, given that you just did.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Snowball

Where does it say that?

His Uncle

'He was sitting on the train when he noticed both tickets were for Polmont to Edinburgh Park, but he decided to concentrate on his exam and explain the mix-up to the inspector on the train home.

'After his exam he went out for a few drinks. He got on the train and everyone's seen the video, but he's no fare dodger, he was just sold the wrong ticket and the inspector's decided he's off at Linlithgow.

And his Dad

'He's diabetic and all his things were in that bag - his medication, his university notes, his money, his mobile phone and his Ipod.

Doubt he'd take his notes on a night out

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Snowball

How do we know that the 'big man' wasn't such a person off duty? How do we know he was not a police officer off duty?

Well if that was the case, then I'm not exactly sure how these things work but I'd assume that off-duty it is still not their problem and they have no right to intervene? If so then I stick by what I said, and regardless, it is none of their business. If not then fair enough, if he is allowed to because of his profession then so be it. But the bottom line of it is, only people in such positions should be allowed to use physical force to remove him, not random passengers on the train.

Originally Posted by Snowball

How do pubs deal with such things..... very few that I know off, wait for the relevant authorities to be contacted and respond. more often than not, the same force is used to remove them, and often - by other punters in the pub who have had enough. What's the difference then?

No difference, and I'd hope that if other people in the pub took it upon themselves to use physical force to remove someone who had not been violent at all, i.e. not in self defence, that they would then be prosecuted for it.

Again, the bottom line of it is - unless it is in self defence, you have no right to physically force someone, or be violent towards someone no matter what the reason behind it is is.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Snowball

How do we know that the 'big man' wasn't such a person off duty? How do we know he was not a police officer off duty?

How do pubs deal with such things..... very few that I know off, wait for the relevant authorities to be contacted and respond. more often than not, the same force is used to remove them, and often - by other punters in the pub who have had enough. What's the difference then?

OK I think you are seriously clutching at straws now tbh

I very much doubt the guy was an off duty police officer...or he would have mentioned that...and he would have been trained in control and restraint, conflict management etc etc so he wouldnt have nearly squashed someones kid while just pushing the other guy...

He would also have known that mentioning he was a PC/flashing his badge would probably make the 19 yr old more likely to listen to him

Im going to leave this thread now. So its up to you if you reply or not. But IMO this argument is now getting very very silly

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Shasown

If he was an off duty copper he would have tried to calm the situation probably by explaining that he was a policeman, thats often enough to nip problems in the bud.

Again funny old thing policemen are taught about not escalating situations where possible, they are taught how to defuse situations by calm conversation etc.

Possibly he'd had enough of listening to a man trying to do his job, who (as per the newpaper report) suggested he buy a ticket and the yobbo refused, preferring instead to verbally abuse an employee of the Rail company and just got rid of bad rubbish, promptly and without ceremony.

[InOne]

Pyramid at the end of the day there was no excuse for Big mans actions, he was a thug and jumped at the chance to throw him off the train. He is no hero and he should be dealt with by the law, he was by far the worst out of the three of them.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Snowball

clearly you felt the answer to be yes, given that you just did.

Bit pathetic though. Come on, you clearly know, as do most people, the difference between an employed bouncer and a passenger on a ScotRail train service. There is no correlation between the two, and you are definitely clutching at straws for comparisons.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

OK I think you are seriously clutching at straws now tbh

I very much doubt the guy was an off duty police officer...or he would have mentioned that...and he would have been trained in control and restraint, conflict management etc etc so he wouldnt have nearly squashed someones kid while just pushing the other guy...

He would also have known that mentioning he was a PC/flashing his badge would probably make the 19 yr old more lilely to listen to him

Im going to leave this thread now. So its up to you if you reply or not. But IMO this argument is now getting very very silly

I actually agree...... it is getting silly - but it remains a possibility (slim albeit). I didn't think Police Officers carried their badges around whilst out socialising, perhaps that's why the guy didn't have it to flash?

Far as I am concerned, the one in the wrong was the 19 year old for all f the reasons I have stated.

Nighty night !!

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Scrooge

Pyramid at the end of the day there was no excuse for Big mans actions, he was a thug and jumped at the chance to throw him off the train. He is no hero and he should be dealt with by the law, he was by far the worst out of the three of them.

At the end of the day: I am perfectly entitled to my own opinion -whether people agree or not.