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fruit_cake · 14-12-2011, 06:10 PM

the poll is showing a clear majority against Big Man

Jack_ · 14-12-2011, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

You cant always blame the parents for kids going bad...so many factors come into it at times :/

Of course, but it's a large factor and the majority of the time I expect that's where trouble stems from. The family is the primary socialiser, children that grow up in dysfunctional ones stand more of a chance of ending up as criminals than ones that don't. It sounds like a generalisation and whilst there are exceptions to the rule, it is largely true as they haven't properly been educated about norms and values.

Vicky. · 14-12-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_

Of course, but it's a large factor and the majority of the time I expect that's where trouble stems from. The family is the primary socialiser, children that grow up in dysfunctional ones stand more of a chance of ending up as criminals than ones that don't. It sounds like a generalisation and whilst there are exceptions to the rule, it is largely true as they haven't properly been educated about norms and values.

Oh yeah I agree with this.

Just annoys me when its always the parents fault...rather than the youths taking some responsibility for their own actions. Was like that with the riots...everyone blaming the parents

Even of the people who were like 19/20+

Pyramid* · 14-12-2011, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Complaint over man who threw 'fare-dodger' off train

Fare-dodger train eviction probed

A complaint has been made to police against a passenger who threw a "fare-dodger" off a train after he refused the conductor's request to leave.

Alan Pollock's action against Sam Main on the Edinburgh to Perth train on Friday was filmed by another passenger.

British Transport Police would not confirm who had made the complaint.

Mr Main, a 19-year-old student from Falkirk, claimed he had mistakenly bought the wrong ticket and was hoping to explain it to the conductor.

He told BBC Radio Scotland's Call Kaye programme: "I was given no time to explain myself. It wasn't even an argument.

A complaint is made to the police about a passenger who threw a suspected "fare-dodger" off a train

"There was a discussion with me trying to explain myself for about a minute and then the conductor started shouting at me," he said.

"I never seen his face, I never seen a man. He never approached me. He never said 'right son get off the train'.

"He grabbed me from behind, threw me to the ground on the train. Then picked me up off the ground on the train. Then threw me to the ground on the platform."

Mr Main told BBC Scotland he had tried to get back on the train to get his bag - which contained his phone, exam notes and headphones - but was prevented from doing so by Mr Pollock.

He also said he was diabetic, had not eaten much all day and had not slept the night before because he had been studying.

"[This] had perhaps quite an adverse effect on my mood and my mannerisms at that time, but still I don't condone the way I spoke to the conductor," he said.

From BBC Scotland News.

Seems the yob needs to get his story straight.

He states he was given 2 single tickets for the same journey in yesterday's reports - that he was SOLD the wrong tickets.

Now he states that he MISTAKENLY bought the wrong ticket. Now, how many times did he argue with the point with the conductor that he had the correct ticket, in fact, didn't he tell him "I've *******ing got it".... yet now he claims he mistakenly bought the wrong ticket.

He was not thrown to the ground. HE tried to punch the Big Man...and during him being spun round & frogmarched out, they stumbled. He was not thrown to the ground on the train at all.

I see he's still going on about the bag that was thrown out to him. He was prevented from getting back on the train again - he was NOT prevented from trying to get his bag, seeing as it had been chucked out along with him.

Jack_ · 14-12-2011, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Oh yeah I agree with this.

Just annoys me when its always the parents fault...rather than the youths taking some responsibility for their own actions. Was like that with the riots...everyone blaming the parents

Even of the people who were like 19/20+

That's true, I believe the original riots would have stemmed from what was probably the repercussions of a poor upbringing, but I blame opportunists with anonymity amongst a crowd myself for everything else that followed that week.

arista · 14-12-2011, 06:27 PM

Is the Punk trying to get Big Money ?

Jack_ · 14-12-2011, 06:29 PM

Pyramid, no matter how much the guy may or may not be lying and changing his story, that does not at all justify the actions of Alan Pollock who still assaulted him, it doesn't change anything. I'm afraid lying doesn't mean that gives a regular person the right to use physical force (a power which they don't have) against you in what is a form of assault.

You can accuse the guy of lying all you want, which I'm sure nobody here agrees with (certainly not me before you again accuse me of something I've already clearly stated otherwise of), but that does not justify the actions of the so-called 'big man', however you try to spin this.

Pyramid* · 14-12-2011, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

You cant always blame the parents for kids going bad...so many factors come into it at times :/

Not least when they are an adult - they should be expected to be able to behave like one and behave responsibly.

From what I'm reading here - this guy was more interested in getting a bevvy down his neck, than attending to his own medical /health needs, or in ensuring he had the correct ticket. More interested in arguing the bit that he had a correct ticket (despite his story changing - if he doesn't regard his actions as being argumentative and there being an argument.

Re his own words below: what did he try to explain exactly? All I see is him arguing with the conductor that he had the correct ticket - which he didn't have - and which he admits in the same interview that he never had in the first place.

So what exactly was he claims he was given no time to explain?

Quote:

He told BBC Radio Scotland's Call Kaye programme: "I was given no time to explain myself. It wasn't even an argument.

Pyramid* · 14-12-2011, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_

Pyramid, no matter how much the guy may or may not be lying and changing his story, that does not at all justify the actions of Alan Pollock who still assaulted him, it doesn't change anything. I'm afraid lying doesn't mean that gives a regular person the right to use physical force (a power which they don't have) against you in what is a form of assault.

You can accuse the guy of lying all you want, which I'm sure nobody here agrees with (certainly not me before you again accuse me of something I've already clearly stated otherwise of), but that does not justify the actions of the so-called 'big man', however you try to spin this.

I totally disagree - I do not believe he was assaulted.

The amount of lies this yob has told - tells it's own story. He's trying to worm his way out of a situation that was entirely of his own making - and is trying to lay the blame at someone else's door.

arista · 14-12-2011, 06:33 PM

"the actions of Alan Pollock who still assaulted him"

Yes Jack
but he was clapped and they got moving again.

Are you a Liberal?

MTVN · 14-12-2011, 06:33 PM

What's your definition of assault Pyramid?

arista · 14-12-2011, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowball

I totally disagree - I do not believe he was assaulted.

The amount of lies this yob has told - tells it's own story. He's trying to worm his way out of a situation that was entirely of his own making - and is trying to lay the blame at someone else's door.

Yes I hope he gets the Fine or Time

Punk Scam

Pyramid* · 14-12-2011, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista

Is the Punk trying to get Big Money ?

I wouldn't be surprised.

I'm sure his parents, family & friends,are all very proud of him right now, showing himself up to be not only a liar on several counts, but a fare dodger and a complete idiot - now for all the world to see.

How utterly embarrassing for them all.

Pyramid* · 14-12-2011, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN

What's your definition of assault Pyramid?

It's certainly not being forcibly ejected from a mode of transportation in which you have not paid to travel on, especially after being abusive and failing to produce ticket when said, or failing to leave when requested - which is what we are discussing here.

Tom4784 · 14-12-2011, 06:38 PM

He mainhandled another passenger and caused them harm although he had no right to do so, that's assault simple as.

Jack_ · 14-12-2011, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowball

I totally disagree - I do not believe he was assaulted.

The amount of lies this yob has told - tells it's own story. He's trying to worm his way out of a situation that was entirely of his own making - and is trying to lay the blame at someone else's door.

He was assaulted. That's not a belief, it's a fact. Using physical force or violence against someone when you have no power to do so, or you are not using it as a form of self defence is against the law and it is a form of assault, a minor one yes but a form of assault nonetheless, and that's the bottom line of it.

There are no excuses for any forms of assault, no matter how little or how large they are. It's illegal (as it should be).

If there is any justice Pollock will be arrested and charged with assault, given an appropriate punishment (compensation and formal apology for starters if you ask me) and banned from all ScotRail services, as I've previously stated. Before you undoubtedly bring it up, likewise after a fair trial, if the guy is found guilty of fare dodging then he should also be forced to compensate and be banned from all ScotRail services. But regardless, Pollock assaulted Main and that issue isn't to be disputed.

Pyramid* · 14-12-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy

He mainhandled another passenger and caused them harm although he had no right to do so, that's assault simple as.

Not in my books it's not.

He was forcibly removed from a train in which he had no right to travel. Simple.

Not Pollock's fault the yob wasn't able to keep his balance or that the yob tried to force his way back onto the train again.

Pyramid* · 14-12-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_

He was assaulted. That's not a belief, it's a fact. Using physical force or violence against someone when you have no power to do so, or you are not using it as a form of self defence is against the law and it is a form of assault, a minor one yes but a form of assault nonetheless, and that's the bottom line of it.

There are no excuses for any forms of assault, no matter how little or how large they are. It's illegal (as it should be).

If there is any justice Pollock will be arrested and charged with assault, given an appropriate punishment (compensation and formal apology for starters if you ask me) and banned from all ScotRail services, as I've previously stated. Before you undoubtedly bring it up, likewise after a fair trial, if the guy is found guilty of fare dodging then he should also be forced to compensate and be banned from all ScotRail services. But regardless, Pollock assaulted Main and that issue isn't to be disputed.

I'll wait to see if the Police charge Mr Pollock.

MTVN · 14-12-2011, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowball

It's certainly not being forcibly ejected from a mode of transportation in which you have not paid to travel on, especially after being abusive and failing to produce ticket when said, or failing to leave when requested - which is what we are discussing here.

Not sure the law would disagree with you there, by any legal definition he did commit assault

Jack_ · 14-12-2011, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista

"the actions of Alan Pollock who still assaulted him"

Yes Jack
but he was clapped and they got moving again.

Are you a Liberal?

Anyone that clapped someone they've just witnessed assault another passenger is beyond pathetic, and if it were down to me I'd have them all charged with plain idiocy and crimes against morality. An applause from a group of people does not shy away from the fact that the guy was assaulted.

MTVN · 14-12-2011, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_

Anyone that clapped someone they've just witnessed assault another passenger is beyond pathetic, and if it were down to me I'd have them all charged with plain idiocy and crimes against morality. An applause from a group of people does not shy away from the fact that the guy was assaulted.

Crimes against morality? Really?

Pyramid* · 14-12-2011, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN

Not sure the law would disagree with you there, by any legal definition he did commit assault

Like I said, let's see if the Police actually charge him and let's see if he is found guilty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_

Anyone that clapped someone they've just witnessed assault another passenger is beyond pathetic, and if it were down to me I'd have them all charged with plain idiocy and crimes against morality. An applause from a group of people does not shy away from the fact that the guy was assaulted.

Which is just as well that it's not down to you then eh - seeing as neither of those 2 things you mentioned are crimes.