[Kizzy]

further strikes by the NUT may be called, further to pension concerns but pressure to perform to government directives.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17551617

QUOTE:
Christine Blower, general secretary of the National Union of Teachers (NUT), said teachers felt demoralised by the number of new initiatives directed at schools and by "carping" criticism.

She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "They are dispirited and angry by turn - for example being told 'We have tolerated mediocrity for too long' - that does not help the profession.

Teachers are expected to meet unrealistic targets, or risk the sack....

QUOTE:
Teachers at the NUT will hear calls to scrap England's schools inspectorate Ofsted and criticism of the government in England's plans to make it easier for head teachers to remove poor teachers.

The government wants to cut the time it can take to remove an underperforming teacher from a year to one term.

No mention of underfunded undervalued experienced teachers, or the secondary education system that is not working for 1000s of children in deprived areas of the UK.

[Pyramid*]

Unless there is real serious issues - I have no time for strikers.

sorry - there are very few and far between cases that are deserving of it.

Like the truck drivers - I don't see this as a valid reason either.

OMG. I'm realising that I'm seriously becoming a tory through and through.

[King Gizzard]

Good on them

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Unless there is real serious issues - I have no time for strikers.

sorry - there are very few and far between cases that are deserving of it.

Like the truck drivers - I don't see this as a valid reason either.

OMG. I'm realising that I'm seriously becoming a tory through and through.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Good on them

Yeah good on them. let the parents who work then have to worry and figure out who is going to look after the kiddies when they have to go to work and make an honest buck - or worry about trying to find childminders for the day/days, how to pay for them.

great idea. not.

[Jack_]

Bring it on I say.

At least this one seems to have some sort of decent point behind it.

[Pyramid*]

Plenty of workers feel demoralised, aren't getting enough pay, have too many targets that are unachievable and face the sack.

If everyone in that position went on strike - the UK would be in an even worse mess than it is.

Time people grew backbones. Or made another career choice if they can't hack it.

Things change, times change - move with the times or find another job.

[King Gizzard]

It's the only possible action they can take to get noticed, so good on them. 1 day out of how many days a child will be educated? Improves the education long term as well

Y

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Nathan

It's the only possible action they can take to get noticed, so good on them. 1 day out of how many days a child will be educated? Improves the education long term as well

Y

1 days out out of how many days a chld will be educated? That makes no sense whatsoever - sorry I have no idea what you mean by that.

If you seriously think 1 day strike action is going to make any radical difference - nope, it won't. What difference is one day going to make in reality?

[King Gizzard]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

1 days out out of how many days a chld will be educated? That makes no sense whatsoever - sorry I have no idea what you mean by that.

If you seriously think 1 day strike action is going to make any radical difference - nope, it won't. What difference is one day going to make in reality?

Oh ok then..1 day out of the numerous days a child will be educated during it's life. Not that big a deal is it.

It gets their issues in the media. People take notice. Good on them for doing it.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Oh ok then..1 day out of the numerous days a child will be educated during it's life. Not that big a deal is it.

It gets their issues in the media. People take notice. Good on them for doing it.

I didn't make any comparison to the effect on the childrens education for the sake of one day.

I made the point about parent who have to someone fit this into their working day unexpectedly, at great inconvenience & cost to them.

It may make people notice. Not all things notices are for the good though and I don't see this as being good at all.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Yeah good on them. let the parents who work then have to worry and figure out who is going to look after the kiddies when they have to go to work and make an honest buck - or worry about trying to find childminders for the day/days, how to pay for them.

great idea. not.

Teachers are parents too, its not a decision taken lightly..Who enjoys striking?....
We complain about lack of decent education, expect GCSE A-C grade passes from innercity schools then make it damn near impossible by removing resources or increasing teachers workload.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ed...m-7624652.html

More work for less pay, and if you dont meet targets you could be sacked in 1 term?....

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Teachers are parents too, its not a decision taken lightly..Who enjoys striking?....
We complain about lack of decent education, expect GCSE A-C grade passes from innercity schools then make it damn near impossible by removing resources or increasing teachers workload.

More work for less pay, and if you dont meet targets you could be sacked in 1 term?....

If I don't meet targets I can get sack next week - I'm not going on strike for it - I look for ways around the issue to achieve.

Lack of decent education doesn't stay soley on the part of teachers you know. They provide the fundamental basis - parents also have a right to provide their own teaching - my parents did. I could read, write and read all the little Ladybird books before I went to school. That type of ongoing 'at home' learning continued throughout my life.

It's not all about what teachers teach or how they teach it. It is in part but it's not the entire picture.

Nope....I don't think it is deserved.

[Tom4784]

My mom was talking about this the other day, she's a teaching assistant but she's not keen on the idea as she thinks it's detrimental to the kids' education especially since exams are on the horizon.

I have sympathy for them, it's hard work and they don't get nearly enough recognition.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

My mom was talking about this the other day, she's a teaching assistant but she's not keen on the idea as she thinks it's detrimental to the kids' education especially since exams are on the horizon.

I have sympathy for them, it's hard work and they don't get nearly enough recognition.

Neither do many workers get recognition for hard work - nursing auxillaries / the people who clean public toilets etc...... there are so many different levels of 'hard work'.

I doubt it will have any impact on the students at all - other than then loving having an extra day off up their cuffs.

I'm not saying that teachers don't have a right to feel aggrieved but there are many other ways to skin a cat and all that - striking I do not believe is the answer - it's not a serious enough an issue to me for that to be the last resort.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

If I don't meet targets I can get sack next week - I'm not going on strike for it - I look for ways around the issue to achieve.

Lack of decent education doesn't stay soley on the part of teachers you know. They provide the fundamental basis - parents also have a right to provide their own teaching - my parents did. I could read, write and read all the little Ladybird books before I went to school. That type of ongoing 'at home' learning continued throughout my life.

It's not all about what teachers teach or how they teach it. It is in part but it's not the entire picture.

Nope....I don't think it is deserved.

What type of contract of employment do you have?...sounds well dodgy to me haha
This reminds me of another issue that has been approved, regarding the right to an employment tribunal...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012...ernment-unions

It helps if kids have the basics before full time school starts I agree 100% there, however there are those who are not even toilet trained....Its not the teachers fault is it? In areas of of high unemployment and poverty this is one issue teachers face.

They are the fall guys for a failing system.
What do you suggest as alternative to strike action?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

What type of contract of employment do you have?...sounds well dodgy to me haha
This reminds me of another issue that has been aproved, regarding the right to an employment tribunal...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012...ernment-unions

It helps if kids have the basics before full time school starts I agree 100% there, however there are those who are not even toilet trained....Its not the teachers fault is it? In areas of of high unemployment and poverty this is one issue teachers face.

They are the fall guys for a failing system.

Nothing well dodgy about my job at all - some that I happen to work with however - yes, they are well dodgy! But that comes in any workforce.

Those children who are not toilet trained: that's a whole different issue and does not form any part of the reasons for this strike unless I am mistaken?

I think you will find on the matter of toilet training (or lack of) - that it is in fact, the more affluent parents who quite literally 'poo poo' their children and molly coddle them - that are at the root cause of that. If I CBA I'd go mooch for facts - but I'm fairly sure that it's more an issue from the 'higher society' parents than those in poorer / unemployed areas.

[Kizzy]

My point there was that teachers are having to spend time teaching these basic functions to kids, and containing classroom disruptions, therefore leaving less time for actual teaching.
This will have a knock on effect in levels of attainment and affect progress made in the classrom in curriculum based activities.
Therefore its not down to poor teaching that targets are not met but circumstances that prevent them from achieving the aims and objectives set for the term.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...failed-parents

The responsibilities of primary school teachers has increased over the last few years and so too has the pressure.
This is magnified when they reach secondary school.
To me this is a contributory factor in the case for the teachers, they should not be viewed as disposable commodities when they do not achieve unobtainable goals...
You cannot run a school as a business.

[Marc]

I don't believe that teachers AREN'T allowed to strike due to the fact that parents will have to take days off etc to look after their kids.

Teachers are in a profession just like everybody else, they have a job and responsibilities and they also have families to look after and a future to toward

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

My point there was that teachers are having to spend time teaching these basic functions to kids, and containing classroom disruptions, therefore leaving less time for actual teaching.
This will have a knock on effect in levels of attainment and affect progress made in the classrom in curriculum based activities.
Therefore its not down to poor teaching that targets are not met but circumstances that prevent them from achieving the aims and objectives set for the term.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...failed-parents

The responsibilities of primary school teachers has increased over the last few years and so too has the pressure.
This is magnified when they reach secondary school.
To me this is a contributory factor in the case for the teachers, they should not be viewed as disposable commodities when they do not achieve unobtainable goals...
You cannot run a school as a business.

The point you made is irrelevant to the the reasons for their strike though. That's a totally different thing altogether.

One of the reasons teachers get such a hard time is due to the nambie pampie 'no belt' anymore. One of the reasons - not all so don't misquote or misread that one.

Schools can and do run as businesses. Commonly referred to as private schools. They run as businesses and very well indeed in most cases.

Why? Because they tend to be far stricter than state schools. I know because I've attended both types both here and abroad and in my experience: I can say that with hand on heart.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

The point you made is irrelevant to the the reasons for their strike though. That's a totally different thing altogether.

One of the reasons teachers get such a hard time is due to the nambie pampie 'no belt' anymore. One of the reasons - not all so don't misquote or misread that one.

Schools can and do run as businesses. Commonly referred to as private schools. They run as businesses and very well indeed in most cases.

Why? Because they tend to be far stricter than state schools. I know because I've attended both types both here and abroad and in my experience: I can say that with hand on heart.

Are you referring to punishment? Belting children is unethical and illegal so thats out im afraid
If you have funds you can work wonders as you say, state schools are failing as they dont have the time, funds, resources to put into the kids they have.
Blaming the teachers is a cop out.
And yes the strike is primarily relating to pensions, but these other issues are relevant to the morale of state run schoolteachers I feel.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Are you referring to punishment? Belting children is unethical and illegal so thats out im afraid
If you have funds you can work wonders as you say, state schools are failing as they dont have the time, funds, resources to put into the kids they have.
Blaming the teachers is a cop out.
And yes the strike is primarily relating to pensions, but these other issues are relevant to the morale of state run schoolteachers I feel.

No, no, I was referring to the toilet training issue.

Blaming the teachers is not a cop out. It is reality. not all of them of course, that would be ludicrious to suggest that. They may not have an easy job but very few people in life DO have easy jobs.

My own education was probably 60/40 state and private - and I can assure you - there was no issue in my levels of education or high standards throughout all of my state schooling. So much so that when I began private schooling - I was far more ahead in the curriculum. Private schooling did offer tremendous benefits of which I am thankful for - but let's not pretend private school teachers have an easier time. They don't.

The private pupils however do have more respect overall though, for their teachers and their studies. If that wasn't the case: then private schools would not have the success rates that they do.

Much of the lost respect from pupils comes from *imo* a distinct drop in the way many parents raise their children now - with discipline sadly lacking in many cases. i don't mean abuse -I mean effective discipline.

Perhaps it is the calibre of teachers allowed to be qualified that needs to be put into question.... perhaps they aren't made of the right stuff but given that like nursing: it's a career that is nose diving: that they are left with many who would not have made it in the teaching world years ago. *note - not all, not by a long shot, there are many brilliant teachers out there who are tarred with this unfortunate brush - unfairly*

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

No, no, I was referring to the toilet training issue.

Blaming the teachers is not a cop out. It is reality. not all of them of course, that would be ludicrious to suggest that. They may not have an easy job but very few people in life DO have easy jobs.

My own education was probably 60/40 state and private - and I can assure you - there was no issue in my levels of education or high standards throughout all of my state schooling. So much so that when I began private schooling - I was far more ahead in the curriculum. Private schooling did offer tremendous benefits of which I am thankful for - but let's not pretend private school teachers have an easier time. They don't.

The private pupils however do have more respect overall though, for their teachers and their studies. If that wasn't the case: then private schools would not have the success rates that they do.

Much of the lost respect from pupils comes from *imo* a distinct drop in the way many parents raise their children now - with discipline sadly lacking in many cases. i don't mean abuse -I mean effective discipline.

Perhaps it is the calibre of teachers allowed to be qualified that needs to be put into question.... perhaps they aren't made of the right stuff but given that like nursing: it's a career that is nose diving: that they are left with many who would not have made it in the teaching world years ago. *note - not all, not by a long shot, there are many brilliant teachers out there who are tarred with this unfortunate brush - unfairly*

That was a long time ago...
Again I don't think you can blame the teachers as they are highly qualified, the problem is they are tied with regard to lesson planning...Classes are structured to the curriculum and there is little room for manoevre.
As you say the level of disipline at home may have changed over the years which has added to the strain on teachers, making the job far more stressful than it was.
Assault cases have risen to alarming levels, and all the while there is the onus on exam results ever present....

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

That was a long time ago...
Again I don't think you can blame the teachers as they are highly qualified, the problem is they are tied with regard to lesson planning...Classes are structured to the curriculum and there is little room for manoevre.
As you say the level of disipline at home may have changed over the years which has added to the strain on teachers, making the job far more stressful than it was.
Assault cases have risen to alarming levels, and all the while there is the onus on exam results ever present....

Precisely my point - that standards of teaching have declined and much of that came with the 'ban the belt' stuff. No deterrents in place so kids knew they could do what the hell they liked with no real consequence.

it's a bit rich (in every sense of the word) to strike about pensions: they way the teachers are going on, you'd think they were the only ones who had cuts to their pension plans. they should think themselves lucky that they work for the state who do in fact contribute to their pension schemes. Far too many who work in the private sector don't have that luxury - but they don't go on strike at any moment it suits them.

never in a million years do the teachers get my sympathy. Not on this one, not a chance. hell would freeze over first.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Precisely my point - that standards of teaching have declined and much of that came with the 'ban the belt' stuff. No deterrents in place so kids knew they could do what the hell they liked with no real consequence.

it's a bit rich (in every sense of the word) to strike about pensions: they way the teachers are going on, you'd think they were the only ones who had cuts to their pension plans. they should think themselves lucky that they work for the state who do in fact contribute to their pension schemes. Far too many who work in the private sector don't have that luxury - but they don't go on strike at any moment it suits them.

never in a million years do the teachers get my sympathy. Not on this one, not a chance. hell would freeze over first.

I disagree, educational standards have declined, student standards have declined....not teaching.
Working for the public sector in any capacity is for the benefit of everyone. They do contribute to it , its not free money.
I can see you are not open to this, teachers , firefighters,police officers,nurses.....They deserve respect for the work they do, recently they are being dumped on from a great height.
Its not right, this country will continue to decline untill we look after those who look after us and the future generation.