[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Just because it's the law doesn't make it right, the woman shouldn't be forced to do Jury Service imo, and the fact that your comparing taxes to this incident is shocking as they are not the same at all, you need to pay your taxes for the welfare of this country where as going to Jury Service is not exactly gonna give more money to the country is it?

No it doesn't but that makes no difference. The Law is there for a purpose, whether we agree with it or not.

Much of my tax payers money is put into areas that I disagree with and is used to fund things that I do not benefit from, and never will. Why should I be expected to follow that particular Law then just because I don't want to.

It is exactly the same premise.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Just because it's the law doesn't make it right, the woman shouldn't be forced to do Jury Service imo, and the fact that your comparing taxes to this incident is shocking as they are not the same at all, you need to pay your taxes for the welfare of this country where as going to Jury Service is not exactly gonna give more money to the country is it?

You are displaying a shocking level of ignorance - it's a complex issue, but please do SOME research .....

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

The Law is there for a purpose, whether we agree with it or not.

I take issue with this. How about...let's pass a law whereby if somebody irritates you, you can bludgeon them to death. Another law which allows the government to pick dodgy looking people off the street and jail them without trial under the pretense of 'protecting citizens from dodgy people'.

The law is there for a purpose, whether we agree with it or not. So let's just sit back and allow these things to happen, yes?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

No it doesn't but that makes no difference. The Law is there for a purpose, whether we agree with it or not.

Much of my tax payers money is put into areas that I disagree with and is used to fund things that I do not benefit from, and never will. Why should I be expected to follow that particular Law then just because I don't want to.

It is exactly the same premise.

This is the same law that lets murderers, paedophiles, rapists and rioters out of prison after 3 years, the law is a mess and alot of us don't agree with those sentences but by your definition it's the law so deal with it.

And Omah im not showing ignorance, im actually fighting for basic rights that everyone should have, this is wrong and out of order.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I take issue with this. How about...let's pass a law whereby if somebody irritates you, you can bludgeon them to death. Another law which allows the government to pick dodgy looking people off the street and jail them without trial under the pretense of 'protecting citizens from dodgy people'.

The law is there for a purpose, whether we agree with it or not. So let's just sit back and allow these things to happen, yes?

Take issue with it all you like, that's my stance on the matter and it happens to be the stance of the Law by which this country is governed by.

If you don't like it so much are so abhorrent to having to comply with the Law within this country: you're free to exit via any airport, ferry port - you also have the option of train now too.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I take issue with this. How about...let's pass a law whereby if somebody irritates you, you can bludgeon them to death. Another law which allows the government to pick dodgy looking people off the street and jail them without trial under the pretense of 'protecting citizens from dodgy people'.

The law is there for a purpose, whether we agree with it or not. So let's just sit back and allow these things to happen, yes?

Exactly Jack we should just stand by and let it happen, it's quite ridiculous really I think.

[Tom4784]

Silly woman.

I do agree that Jury Duty shouldn't be compulsory though, why put someone's future in the hands of a person so irresponsible?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Take issue with it all you like, that's my stance on the matter and it happens to be the stance of the Law by which this country is governed by.

If you don't like it so much are so abhorrent to having to comply with the Law within this country: you're free to exit via any airport, ferry port - you also have the option of train now too.

We shouldn't have to.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

This is the same law that lets murderers, paedophiles, rapists and rioters out of prison after 3 years, the law is a mess and alot of us don't agree with those sentences but by your definition it's the law so deal with it.

And Omah im not showing ignorance, im actually fighting for basic rights that everyone should have, this is wrong and out of order.

Yes, that very same Law - that very same one that uses your tax paying to put those people you mention through trials, (funded by the tax payer in most cases via Legal Aid), sentence them, pay all the respective court personnel, prison officers to feed them, house them, keep them warm, give them access to all sorts, then if bad enough: uses further Łmillions to give (some) new identities which they then reveal - and so it continues.

So I'm guessing then that when you start contibuting to PAYE, that you'll be holding back on some of your tax because you disagree with the Law that says you have no say in how much they take off your top line?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Exactly Jack we should just stand by and let it happen, it's quite ridiculous really I think.

If you and Jack and others feel it is so ridiculous: what are your intentions then?

What are you going to do to change the Law?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Take issue with it all you like, that's my stance on the matter and it happens to be the stance of the Law by which this country is governed by.

If you don't like it so much are so abhorrent to having to comply with the Law within this country: you're free to exit via any airport, ferry port - you also have the option of train now too.

Right, I just need a second to comprehend this. Because I'm gathering here that by virtue of you not responding to any of the points I made, you are actively sitting there saying that you would be happy to sit back and allow potentially innocent citizens going about their daily life to be jailed without trial because the state says 'they look dodgy', and for you to be able to bludgeon someone to death because they irritate you, all because that is 'the law by which this country is governed by'?

If I've got this right, you have hit a new low Pyramid...even by your standards this is something else. Hey, why not go the whole hog and turn the UK into a totalitarian, fascist run state while we're at it. After all...that'd be the law...no big deal.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

We shouldn't have to.

No one forces you to stay.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Yes, that very same Law - that very same one that uses your tax paying to put those people you mention through trials, (funded by the tax payer in most cases via Legal Aid), sentence them, pay all the respective court personnel, prison officers to feed them, house them, keep them warm, give them access to all sorts, then if bad enough: uses further Łmillions to give (some) new identities which they then reveal - and so it continues.

So I'm guessing then that when you start contibuting to PAYE, that you'll be holding back on some of your tax because you disagree with the Law that says you have no say in how much they take off your top line?

No I wouldn't hold off paying taxes because it benefits this country, no matter what stupid things they spend it on.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

If you and Jack and others feel it is so ridiculous: what are your intentions then?

What are you going to do to change the Law?

Vote for a party that is actually up to date with the modern people and actually want the law done properly, sadly I haven't found that party yet and as im still underage I can't vote yet anyway.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Silly woman.

I do agree that Jury Duty shouldn't be compulsory though, why put someone's future in the hands of a person so irresponsible?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15763388

The concept of civic duty has been used by those in favour of creating a written constitution for the UK - the argument being that if you know what's expected of you by society, you're more likely to do it.

Nick Cowan, from the think tank Civitas, says for him, jury duty is key - not least because it requires a much greater time commitment from the citizen than simply ticking a box on a polling form.

"It's terribly important because it's one of the backstops against a justice system that might otherwise go out of control.

"It's not that jurors are delivering any expertise. In fact, it's because they're disinterested - they have no personal affiliation with the judge, the lawyers, the defendant or the police - that they're so important.

"Jurors are outside observers present to see justice being done and to call a halt to it if it doesn't work. If everyone started welching out of jury duty, you'd end up with juries that were dangerously unrepresentative.

Alison Park, who is research director at the National Centre for Social Research, says there's been a long term decline in the proportion of people who think it's their civic duty to take part in elections.

"If you divide the population into age groups, sense of civic duty is much stronger in older generations.

"Historically, people's sense has tended to get stronger as they've got older, but I just can't see that happening with today's younger generations.

"There's something about the lessons that young people are being taught, not just in school but more generally, about politics and the worth of politics. They are entering the electorate not being that interested or engaged, and without a sense of responsibility to vote."

Alison agrees that the experience of wartime - either personal, or close, from a parent - may be one factor behind it. The idea that those who have seen their political freedoms threatened view them as more valuable than those who haven't.

"You could also argue that politics now is more complicated. The world is so intertwined now, what a government can actually do is quite constrained, so you could argue that perhaps young people are more aware of the weaknesses of government.

"Whatever the reason, the difference between generations is indisputable and unless something very unexpected happens, young people are never going to discover the sense of civic duty that their grandparents have."

Sound words from Nick and Alison .....

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Omah

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15763388





Sound words from Nick and Alison .....

You still can't force somebody to do something that they don't want to do, we're not Burma.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

No one forces you to stay.

I want to stay because I actually like my country and actually want it to sort itself out, im no coward that runs away from stuff when it gets even slightly dangerous.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

No I wouldn't hold off paying taxes because it benefits this country, no matter what stupid things they spend it on.

Which includes the very thing that you are complaining about !

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Vote for a party that is actually up to date with the modern people and actually want the law done properly, sadly I haven't found that party yet and as im still underage I can't vote yet anyway.

There is no such Party that can offer that - you cannot please all of the people all of the time and the majority vote rules.

You can be sure that as far as the Law is concerned: there won't be much change in this particular remit, not anytime soon, even long after you are entitled to vote.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

I want to stay because I actually like my country and actually want it to sort itself out, im no coward that runs away from stuff when it gets even slightly dangerous.

It has nothing to do with cowardice. You have to accept that there are things that are not in your power to change - that your say or your 'wants' are not to the benefit of the country.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

You still can't force somebody to do something that they don't want to do, we're not Burma.

I'm forced to pay taxes, some of which are used to keep repeat paedophiles alive which I don't want my money being used on. I object to that but have no say in the matter. I don't live in Burma.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

You still can't force somebody to do something that they don't want to do, we're not Burma.

In the UK, the role of the citizen is not well-defined within the law, but one thing is sure - if the UK were to become involved in a large-scale conflict and conscription was re-introduced, YOU (but not me) would be one of the first to be called up to get blown to pieces on some god-forsaken stretch of foreign soil, whether you wanted to go or not .....

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

It has nothing to do with cowardice. You have to accept that there are things that are not in your power to change - that your say or your 'wants' are not to the benefit of the country.

But im not the only one wanting this as you can clearly see in this thread.

And how will allowing freedom of choice actually affect the country? im sorry Pyramid but unless you give me an explaination that's good then I can't accept this law.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Omah

In the UK, the role of the citizen is not well-defined within the law, but one thing is sure - if the UK were to become involved in a large-scale conflict and conscription was re-introduced, YOU (but not me) would be one of the first to be called up to get blown to pieces on some god-forsaken stretch of foreign soil, whether you wanted to go or not .....

But I wouldn't go, I would take the prison sentence as at least I fought for what I believe in, I will not do something that I don't want to do and I do not want to be in The Millitary.

And how anybody can defend this law is beyond me, we bang on and on about how the Middle East are not in touch with the rest of the world because of there crazy laws, yet look at what this country classes as good and reasonable laws.

Im starting to think that there's not that bigger difference between the Middle East and the UK.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

But im not the only one wanting this as you can clearly see in this thread.

And how will allowing freedom of choice actually affect the country? im sorry Pyramid but unless you give me an explaination that's good then I can't accept this law.

Not many on this thread are even elible to vote - and when you are eligible, it will make no difference.

Freedom of choice is still restricted within the confines of the Law.

I've given you plenty of explanations, you simply appear to not be understanding them.

You cannot accept this Law? How are you going to 'not accept it'? You have no choice but to accept it.

Not agreeing with it is a different matter. You don't agree with it, but you have no choice but to accept it. (because as I said, Freedom of Choice is restricted). Even in the UK. You don't have to travel to Burma to experience it !

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Omah

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15763388







Sound words from Nick and Alison .....

I'm not going to take anyone's argument seriously if they have to hide behind other people's quotes. Come talk to me when you can think for yourself.

For the sake of the topic though I'll argue with your quotes until you have some of your own input to add.

Compulsory Jury Duty is a flawed concept and is one of the reasons why our law system has it's failings. While a juror's uninterest can be seen as a plus as it means they aren't going to take things as seriously either, someone who doesn't want to be there will just go with whatever gets them out of it quicker rather then actually taking in the facts of a case and making an educated decision and to put the fate of someone in the hands of someone so disinterested is reckless and foolish.