[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

But I wouldn't go, I would take the prison sentence as at least I fought for what I believe in, I will not do something that I don't want to do and I do not want to be in The Millitary.

And how anybody can defend this law is beyond me, we bang on and on about how the Middle East are not in touch with the rest of the world because of there crazy laws, yet look at what this country classes as good and reasonable laws.

Im starting to think that there's not that bigger difference between the Middle East and the UK.

Live a few years in the Middle East, then come back to the thread......

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I'm forced to pay taxes, some of which are used to keep repeat pedophiles alive which I don't want my money being used on.

Uncivilised and in support of totalitarian, fascist states so long as that is the case in the eyes of the law. Just wow.

I had you down as many things, but not those. I have to say for once you have surpassed yourself. Like, really.

Originally Posted by Omah

if the UK were to become involved in a large-scale conflict and conscription was re-introduced, YOU (but not me) would be one of the first to be called up to get blown to pieces on some god-forsaken stretch of foreign soil, whether you wanted to go or not .....

I'd kill myself before it ever got to the state where I'd have to partake in national service, I can assure you.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Uncivilised and in support of totalitarian, fascist states so long as that is the case in the eyes of the law. Just wow.

I had you down as many things, but not those. I have to say for once you have surpassed yourself. Like, really.

And? Am I meant to be offended by your insult? Sorry to disappoint you.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

But I wouldn't go, I would take the prison sentence as at least I fought for what I believe in.

If you took the prison sentence, the authorities would put you in with sex-starved neanderthal knuckle-draggers who wouldn't give a damn about what YOU wanted or what you believed in .....

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I'd kill myself before it ever got to the state where I'd have to partake in national service, I can assure you.

So you say .....

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Compulsory Jury Duty is a flawed concept and is one of the reasons why our law system has it's failings. While a juror's uninterest can be seen as a plus as it means they aren't going to take things as seriously either, someone who doesn't want to be there will just go with whatever gets them out of it quicker rather then actually taking in the facts of a case and making an educated decision and to put the fate of someone in the hands of someone so disinterested is reckless and foolish.

Have you sat on a jury ?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

And? Am I meant to be offended by your insult? Sorry to disappoint you.

It wasn't an insult in the slightest, I'm just quite surprised by your seeming support for fascist regimes and hypothetical totalitarian state-like laws.

I'm quite sure that if I were to suggest a law whereby you were banned from offering your opinions and ever speaking again, or else you would be hung, drawn and quartered, and it was passed, you wouldn't have so much support for 'the law by which this country is governed' then.

Honestly...from what you're saying, why don't we let any old fool off the street pass a new law which may of course endanger anyone of us, but let it pass, because of course that is 'the law'.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Omah

Have you sat on a jury ?

Ah, being as evasive as ever I see.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Jack_

It wasn't an insult in the slightest, I'm just quite surprised by your seeming support for fascist regimes and hypothetical totalitarian state-like laws.

I'm quite sure that if I were to suggest a law whereby you were banned from offering your opinions and ever speaking again, or else you would be hung, drawn and quartered, and it was passed, you wouldn't have so much support for 'the law by which this country is governed' then.

Honestly...from what you're saying, why don't we let any old fool off the street pass a new law which may of course endanger anyone of us, but let it pass, because of course that is 'the law'.

You know nothing about me - only your incorrect assumptions - so why are you surprised?

What I am saying is that people who have no idea of the bigger picture really shouldn't get too heavily involved in conversations such as this one when they have so littel understanding on the matter but think they do not need to understand to be able to offer up some rational reason for the beliefs....- proven by your comment about ''letting any old fool pass a new law''.

That confirms your own lack of knowledge on the subject. It seems clear that you have not the remotest idea of what is involved in passing a new Law? Often requiring many years of deliberation / consideration / consultation by official bodies (including non governmental and independant ones) that are involved, the stages involved, the time that it takes and what is involved.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Ah, being as evasive as ever I see.

You haven't answered the question - I'm trying to evaluate your credibility .....

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Omah

Have you sat on a jury ?

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Ah, being as evasive as ever I see.

In the same manner that you have evaded answering Omah's question you mean....

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

In the same manner that you have evaded answering Omah's question you mean....

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Not many on this thread are even elible to vote - and when you are eligible, it will make no difference.

Freedom of choice is still restricted within the confines of the Law.

I've given you plenty of explanations, you simply appear to not be understanding them.

You cannot accept this Law? How are you going to 'not accept it'? You have no choice but to accept it.

Not agreeing with it is a different matter. You don't agree with it, but you have no choice but to accept it. (because as I said, Freedom of Choice is restricted). Even in the UK. You don't have to travel to Burma to experience it !

No I don't agree with your explanations, that's why I was wondering if you had an explanation that I could agree with.

And no I don't agree with it and I won't accept these type of laws, and as Omah already mentioned, I will not go into The Army if I don't want to, crisis or not and I shouldn't be expected to and dictated to do it.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

You know nothing about me - only your incorrect assumptions - so why are you surprised?

Let's get this straight. I posed some hypothetical questions to you, intended to question your stance on 'living by the law in which this country is governed', i.e. that if ludicrous, uncivilised, fascist laws were passed, would you still be in support of them, as after all, that is 'the law'. You didn't respond to any of these questions...therefore, I'm quite sure I can conclude that you would be in support of such laws being passed. That's not making assumptions.

Questioning laws and questioning government at all times is extremely important, otherwise we put ourselves in a position where things are suppressed and, as I previously stated, we end up living under a totalitarian state. Perhaps you're in support of that...I don't know, but I'd expect the majority aren't. This is why having the right to protest, free speech etc are so important, I'd expect however that you think these should be abolished, as we should live by the law and never question it or the government?

You only have to look at Hitler to see why everything I mentioned in the last paragraph is so important.

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

That confirms your own lack of knowledge on the subject. It seems clear that you have not the remotest idea of what is involved in passing a new Law? Often requiring many years of deliberation / consideration / consultation by official bodies (including non governmental and independant ones) that are involved, the stages involved, the time that it takes and what is involved.

Considering I'm doing an A Level where we've just recently looked into what goes into the process of passing laws, I'm fairly sure I'm clued up on what goes on. Of course the remark I made about 'letting any old fool pass a law' was entirely hypothetical, and you know...not real, or encompassing of actual reality. Hypothetical...but never mind.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

No I don't agree with your explanations, that's why I was wondering if you had an explanation that I could agree with.

And no I don't agree with it and I won't accept these type of laws, and as Omah already mentioned, I will not go into The Army if I don't want to, crisis or not and I shouldn't be expected to and dictated to do it.

You don't have to agree with my explanations.

It is very easy to say "I won't accept these type of Laws" when they in fact have no impact on you - as they have no impact on you now. That will change soon, and I guarantee you that you will not be in any position other than to 'break the law' and then be held accountable.

Ah, so you expect your fellow country men to all refuse to enter into service if is ever required then - if they all took the view you have - all those eligible to fight, to defend their country would be in jail, leaving the country defenceless. The country that you said you like? That's an rather bizarre concept you have there JF.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Live a few years in the Middle East, then come back to the thread......

Im not saying that there isn't a difference between the two, but im starting to think that they are not so backward to us as I originally thought.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

You don't have to agree with my explanations.

It is very easy to say "I won't accept these type of Laws" when they in fact have no impact on you - as they have no impact on you now. That will change soon, and I guarantee you that you will not be in any position other than to 'break the law' and then be held accountable.

Ah, so you expect your fellow country men to all refuse to enter into service if is ever required then - if they all took the view you have - all those eligible to fight, to defend their country would be in jail, leaving the country defenceless. The country that you said you like? That's an rather bizarre concept you have there JF.

Im not saying that all should join me on this, and if there really was a crisis that required me to go into The Army I would help, but I don't think other people should have to join The Army in those circumstances if they don't want to, if they wanted to join then good but I think we should always have freedom of choice.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Let's get this straight. I posed some hypothetical questions to you, intended to question your stance on 'living by the law in which this country is governed', i.e. that if ludicrous, uncivilised, fascist laws were passed, would you still be in support of them, as after all, that is 'the law'. You didn't respond to any of these questions...therefore, I'm quite sure I can conclude that you would be in support of such laws being passed. That's not making assumptions.

Questioning laws and questioning government at all times is extremely important, otherwise we put ourselves in a position where things are suppressed and, as I previously stated, we end up living under a totalitarian state. Perhaps you're in support of that...I don't know, but I'd expect the majority aren't. This is why having the right to protest, free speech etc are so important, I'd expect however that you think these should be abolished, as we should live by the law and never question it or the government?

You only have to look at Hitler to see why everything I mentioned in the last paragraph is so important.



Considering I'm doing an A Level where we've just recently looked into what goes into the process of passing laws, I'm fairly sure I'm clued up on what goes on. Of course the remark I made about 'letting any old fool pass a law' was entirely hypothetical, and you know...not real, or encompassing of actual reality. Hypothetical...but never mind.

Goodwin's Law just kicked in.

You are reaching a conclusion on what a person thinks when you know know nothing about that person. That's interesting.

Whilst I admire your 'passion' with all respect to you Jack ....An A Level? There's a very true saying about little knowledge being a very dangerous thing.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Im not saying that there isn't a difference between the two, but im starting to think that they are not so backward to us as I originally thought.

As I say, go live in the Middle East for a few years: it's less to do with being backwards and more to do with understanding just how much Freedom we have here in the UK.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Goodwin's Law just kicked in.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

As I say, go live in the Middle East for a few years: it's less to do with being backwards and more to do with understanding just how much Freedom we have here in the UK.

We have more freedom in some ways, but wait until all these new laws to censor the Internet kicks in, that's even less freedom to do what you want.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

No I don't agree with your explanations, that's why I was wondering if you had an explanation that I could agree with.

And no I don't agree with it and I won't accept these type of laws, and as Omah already mentioned, I will not go into The Army if I don't want to, crisis or not and I shouldn't be expected to and dictated to do it.

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Im not saying that all should join me on this, and if there really was a crisis that required me to go into The Army I would help, but I don't think other people should have to join The Army in those circumstances if they don't want to, if they wanted to join then good but I think we should always have freedom of choice.

What if you chose to 'not want to and not do it' and every other eligible person took that same stance - you know - these laws that you said you weren't accepting - if everyone took that stance - who would defend this country?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Omah

My work here is done.

right folks, enjoyed the healthy robust nature, be interesting to follow up.

goodnight to you all. Tempus fugit.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

What if you chose to 'not want to and not do it' and every other eligible person took that same stance - you know - these laws that you said you weren't accepting - if everyone took that stance - who would defend this country?

Not everyone would run away from helping the country out though, but I think the people should always have a choice on if they would like to join these services or not.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

In the same manner that you have evaded answering Omah's question you mean....

Why should I endulge in such a lazy attempt to discredit my argument?