[Omah]

http://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/l...girl-1-4578655

Two teenagers who sexually abused a drunken schoolgirl at a New Year’s Eve house party in Burnley, have each been jailed for three years.

Burnley Crown Court heard how the “vulnerable” 14 year-old victim described herself as “very, very drunk,” when Tee-jay Walker (17) performed a sex act on her.

David Lingard, then 17 and now 18, had intercourse with the girl while Walker photographed the pair.

After the girl had had more alcohol and was said to be unconscious, the defendants abused, insulted and degraded her some more – laughing, posing and clearly enjoying it as they took pictures of themselves on a mobile phone.

Walker was said to have threatened to post the photos on-line.

Lingard, of Lionel Street, and Walker, of Wavell Street, both Burnley, had each admitted sexual activity with a child, sexual assault and taking indecent photos of a child. Lingard was sent to a young offenders’ institution and Walker to detention. Both will be on the sex offenders’ register indefinitely.

Sentencing, Judge Beverly Lunt said: “A non custodial sentence would be wholly against the interests of justice. You chose to ignore standards of morality and the law and to commit these offences.”

Three years isn't long enough for these toe-rags - they should have been banged up for TEN .....

[Vanessa]

Animals! 3 years isn't enough for them!

[lostalex]

wait, so they arn't arab or muslim? so where are the "white christian british" abusing a child headlines? funny how ethnicity and religion only seem to be in the headline when it's an arab or muslim... hmmmm

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lostalex

wait, so they arn't arab or muslim? so where are the "white christian british" abusing a child headlines? funny how ethnicity and religion only seem to be in the headline when it's an arab or muslim... hmmmm

I think that the headline to which you refer relates to an organised group of men of mainly Asian origin, sytematically abusing under-aged girls and the media and the government being scared to say that they are Asian and that it's a problem in that community. Hearing that isn't going to turn most decent, thinking people into racists, but it might aid that community in addressing the problem.

This was more of a one-off by some dickheads who deserved to be banged up. And a question... Where the hell were the parents of the "drunk fourteen year old"?

[Z]

Not to take away from what they did, but why was a 14 year old girl even drunk in the first place? This probably sounds really harsh but she deserved some consequences for breaking the law, obviously not consequences like this but I would hope she never gets drunk again until she's legally allowed to after having this unfortunate, horrible experience happen to her. The guys sound like opportunists, I'm glad they were punished accordingly.

[Shaun]

I'd find it difficult to categorically say that any drunk 14 year old having sex is 'rape'... it's not even statutory since they weren't 18.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Zee

Not to take away from what they did, but why was a 14 year old girl even drunk in the first place? This probably sounds really harsh but she deserved some consequences for breaking the law, obviously not consequences like this but I would hope she never gets drunk again until she's legally allowed to after having this unfortunate, horrible experience happen to her. The guys sound like opportunists, I'm glad they were punished accordingly.

Obviously we cannot know the girl's identity, but she was described as "vulnerable" and presumably easy prey for the animals who presumably plied her with "love" and alcohol - far from being "opportunists", the scumbags may well have "targetted" her and "groomed" her .....

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I'd find it difficult to categorically say that any drunk 14 year old having sex is 'rape'... it's not even statutory since they weren't 18.

http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/childsexualabuse2.php

What is the current definition of rape in law?

The Sexual Offences Act 2003 (the Act) came into force on the 1 May 2004. It repealed almost all of the existing statute law in relation to sexual offences. The purpose of the Act is to strengthen and modernise the law on sexual offences, whilst improving preventative measures and the protection of individuals from sexual offenders.

Under section 1(1) SOA 2003 a defendant, A, is guilty of rape if:

_ A intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of B (the complainant) with his penis;

_ B does not consent to the penetration; and,

_ A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

The new offence of rape in section 1(1) SOA 2003 includes oral and anal penetration with a penis. This is a change from the previous law which was only concerned with vaginal penetration and used other offences to criminalise these forms of sexual violence (such as indecent assault). The person who commits the offence of rape must be a man (as the penetration has to be with a penis). However, both women and men may experience rape. If the penetration is with something other than a penis then the offence is assault by penetration

For the offence of rape to have been committed the defendant must have penetrated you without your consent, or continued to penetrate you after you withdrew your consent, and the defendant must not have reasonably believed that you were consenting.

It is not relevant what relationship, if any, a defendant has or had with you. Nor is it relevant if the act complained of occurred within a relationship. If the defendant intentionally penetrates with his penis the vagina, anus or mouth of the complainant without her consent where he does not reasonably believe in her consent the defendant has committed rape.

N.B. The wording regarding the law on our website uses the terminology that is commonly used in Law and legal proceedings. The offence of Rape (Sec 1(1) SOA 2003) can only be committed by a man; however, a woman can be charged with, or convicted of rape as a secondary party. For example, a woman may be convicted of rape where she facilitated (helped) a man who has raped another person.

The main provisions of the Act include the following:
•Rape is widened to include oral penetration
•Significant changes to the issue of consent and the abolition of the Morgan defence
•Specific offences relating to children under 13, 16 and 18
•Offences to protect vulnerable persons with a mental disorder
•Other miscellaneous offences
•Strengthening the notification requirements and providing new civil preventative orders

http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/fact_sheets/sexual_offences/

Child Sex Abuse

Those accused of child rape can no longer argue that the child consented. Any sexual intercourse with a child under 13 will be treated as rape. Other non-consensual offences against children under 13 are sexual assault by penetration, sexual assault, and causing or inciting a child to engage in sexual activity.

There are new offences of sexual activity with a child under 16. These cover a range of behaviour, involving both physical and non-physical contact. As children and young persons commit sexual crimes on other children, these offences apply also to persons under 18.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I'd find it difficult to categorically say that any drunk 14 year old having sex is 'rape'... it's not even statutory since they weren't 18.

umm, how is it not rape if someone is drunk? if you cannot legally sign a contract when you are 14, and you cannot legally sign a contract while drunk, then how can you consent to sex?

if someone is that drunk, then they cannot consent, especially a 14 y/o child.

if this was a 14 y/o child that was drunk signing a contract that said, "i hereby entitle you to all of my money" would that contract be legally recognized in a court of law?

NO. why? because she's a drunk 14 y/o child!

so if they cannot even consent to give up money, how can they consent to anything else?

This is absolutely rape.

Originally Posted by Zee

Not to take away from what they did, but why was a 14 year old girl even drunk in the first place? This probably sounds really harsh but she deserved some consequences for breaking the law, obviously not consequences like this but I would hope she never gets drunk again until she's legally allowed to after having this unfortunate, horrible experience happen to her. The guys sound like opportunists, I'm glad they were punished accordingly.

Were you never drunk as a 14 year old?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Zee

Not to take away from what they did, but why was a 14 year old girl even drunk in the first place? This probably sounds really harsh but she deserved some consequences for breaking the law, obviously not consequences like this but I would hope she never gets drunk again until she's legally allowed to after having this unfortunate, horrible experience happen to her. The guys sound like opportunists, I'm glad they were punished accordingly.

You are right it does sound harsh...What 'consequences' would you suggest?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Zee

Not to take away from what they did, but why was a 14 year old girl even drunk in the first place? This probably sounds really harsh but she deserved some consequences for breaking the law, obviously not consequences like this but I would hope she never gets drunk again until she's legally allowed to after having this unfortunate, horrible experience happen to her. The guys sound like opportunists, I'm glad they were punished accordingly.

Unfortunately this young girl has probably never faced any consequences for anything. The horrible reality is that if she hadn't been drunk these boys would probably never have touched her or she would probably have been able to defend herself. I think her parents should be prosecuted. She is a child and they are responsible for her until she reaches the age of majority, and they let her down badly.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Were you never drunk as a 14 year old?

I wasn't ever drunk at 14. And even as an adult I can honestly say I have never been so drunk that I haven't known what I'm doing and frankly, I worry about women who put themselves in that situation.

[Vanessa]

It's still rape. She's only 14!

[MTVN]

I'd say quite a lot of teenagers start drinking at about this age, and they're obviously gonna be less aware of their limits at that age and not really realise how drunk they're getting. Her being drunk isn't an excuse for sexually abusing her when she's unconscious

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Were you never drunk as a 14 year old?

shouldn't the question be "were yu ever raped as a 14 y/o?"

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Livia

I wasn't ever drunk at 14. And even as an adult I can honestly say I have never been so drunk that I haven't known what I'm doing and frankly, I worry about women who put themselves in that situation.

women put themselves in what situation? why should any woman expect to be RAPED just because she drank too much??

[Kizzy]

Urgh it makes me sick to think of the self righteous idealists who get off on these stories sitting astride their tall horses.
There but forthe grace of god and all that....

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Urgh it makes me sick to think of the self righteous idealists who get off on these stories sitting astride their tall horses.
There before the grace of god and all that....

the apologists for rapists are what make me sick.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lostalex

women put themselves in what situation? why should any woman expect to be RAPED just because she drank too much??

I didn't mean putting themselves in the situation of being raped. I mean I worry about the mindset of women who drink so much they don't know where they are or what they're doing... adult women. A fourteen year old is going to be even less able to make good judgements under the influence of alcohol. Of course that doesn't mean I think she deserved to be raped. Not at all. But at fourteen years old I think her parents have to bear some of the responsibility for allowing their child to be placed in danger in this way.

[Vanessa]

This is rape. There's no excuse for it.

[Vicky.]

I used to drink at 14. I dont think its fair to blame the parents for this tbh...short of actually nailing my windows shut (which would probably be illegal or something) there was nothing they could do to keep me in the house during that very rough period of my life. I went totally off the rails in my teens for private reasons that I wont say on here. My parents desperately tried to control my behaviour but if they grounded me I would just climb out a window, or go out straight from school...if they tried picking me up from school to avoid me going AWOL I would skip the last lesson to avoid them...etc etc

Parents cant always control what their teens do.

Luckily I got the help I needed quite quickly and was back to normal after a few months. But during those months, nothing my parents did would have made any difference to my behaviour.

Originally Posted by Livia

I wasn't ever drunk at 14. And even as an adult I can honestly say I have never been so drunk that I haven't known what I'm doing and frankly, I worry about women who put themselves in that situation.

Fair enough, but my group of friends at that age used to go to the park and get drunk every weekend, and there were lots of girls involved. I'm not really a drinker at all these days, but that's because I have nightmarish hangovers, but back in those days we were all practically passing out drunk.

I did grow up in a rural Oxfordshire village, where there wasn't a lot else to do on the weekends.

I'd say your experience of self-control, is something that most teenagers have never had.

[thesheriff443]

you cant blame the parents the girl could of said im just going to a mates house
its like the parents in dunblane they took their kids school how did know a man was going to get in and shoot them.

Originally Posted by lostalex

shouldn't the question be "were yu ever raped as a 14 y/o?"

No, because I was asking Zee a specific question about his post, where he'd said (I'm paraphrasing) that "what on earth was a 14 year old doing drinking?".

My post had nothing whatsoever to do with the rape, which I don't think anyone is defending, anyway.