[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I used to drink at 14. I dont think its fair to blame the parents for this tbh...short of actually nailing my windows shut (which would probably be illegal or something) there was nothing they could do to keep me in the house during that very rough period of my life. I went totally off the rails in my teens for private reasons that I wont say on here. My parents desperately tried to control my behaviour but if they grounded me I would just climb out a window, or go out straight from school...if they tried picking me up from school to avoid me going AWOL I would skip the last lesson to avoid them...etc etc

Parents cant always control what their teens do.

Luckily I got the help I needed quite quickly and was back to normal after a few months. But during those months, nothing my parents did would have made any difference to my behaviour.

You say that your parents tried desperately to control you behaviour... and that you got the help you needed and was back to normal after a few months. I'm guessing your parents were instrumental in getting you that help. I'm sure lots of kids go off the rails, but you have to agree that in many cases parents don't give a monkey's where their teenagers are or what they're doing. When something bad happens to them, or when they do something bad, it's always someone else's fault. I know that at 14 you think you're very sophisticated and grown up, but you're not, you're a child. If their parents aren't responsible for them, who is?

[thesheriff443]

you can have the most careing parents in the world and still grow up to be a rapist.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

You say that your parents tried desperately to control you behaviour... and that you got the help you needed and was back to normal after a few months. I'm guessing your parents were instrumental in getting you that help. I'm sure lots of kids go off the rails, but you have to agree that in many cases parents don't give a monkey's where their teenagers are or what they're doing. When something bad happens to them, or when they do something bad, it's always someone else's fault. I know that at 14 you think you're very sophisticated and grown up, but you're not, you're a child. If their parents aren't responsible for them, who is?

Oh yes definitely.

I'm not saying this case is anything at all like mine, was just trying to point out how the parents cant always stop things like this. Of course they need to take responsibility for their child, but prosecuting them over something they may have tried to control is a bit harsh IMO. I would say they have been punished enough by having their daughter go through this in the first place :S

Of course theres always a chance they simply didnt care and just let her get on with what she wanted to do because they couldnt be arsed to look after her properly...but I dont think its always as simple as saying that the parents should have stopped it.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

you cant blame the parents the girl could of said im just going to a mates house
its like the parents in dunblane they took their kids school how did know a man was going to get in and shoot them.

The Dunblane analogy is a bit tenuous.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Oh yes definitely.

I'm not saying this case is anything at all like mine, was just trying to point out how the parents cant always stop things like this. Of course they need to take responsibility for their child, but prosecuting them over something they may have tried to control is a bit harsh IMO. I would say they have been punished enough by having their daughter go through this in the first place :S

Of course theres always a chance they simply didnt care and just let her get on with what she wanted to do because they couldnt be arsed to look after her properly...but I dont think its always as simple as saying that the parents should have stopped it.

I just think it's got to start somewhere... the restraint... the accepting of consequences. This country has a shameful image the world over of drunkeness. Any town centre on a Saturday night paints a vivid picture of what we've become - boys fighting and vomiting, girls laying in the road or stumbling along drunkenly, it's horrible, and it doesn't really happen in other countries. Other places seem to have developed a healthy attitude to alcohol, but here, we have to drink until we're incoherent. A little off topic now, I think... but whatever, however drunk this girl was, she certainly didn't deserve what happened to her.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I just think it's got to start somewhere... the restraint... the accepting of consequences. This country has a shameful image the world over of drunkeness. Any town centre on a Saturday night paints a vivid picture of what we've become - boys fighting and vomiting, girls laying in the road or stumbling along drunkenly, it's horrible, and it doesn't really happen in other countries. Other places seem to have developed a healthy attitude to alcohol, but here, we have to drink until we're incoherent. A little off topic now, I think... but whatever, however drunk this girl was, she certainly didn't deserve what happened to her.

Oh yeah I definitely agree with this.

You know, I worked in greece a few years back...where 14 year olds are allowed to drink. Yet I never once saw a drunk 14 year old...where as here, I only have to go to my local shop on a friday night to have groups of them falling about and asking me to go in the shop and get them more cheap cider :S

Even as adults, I dont see the need in getting blind drunk where you pass out and cant remember a thing the next day, I like a drink, but I know when I have had enough, and I stop. Shame others dont seem to be able to do that too.

[thesheriff443]

its simple even if you have bad parents she did not deserve to be raped.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Oh yeah I definitely agree with this.

You know, I worked in greece a few years back...where 14 year olds are allowed to drink. Yet I never once saw a drunk 14 year old...where as here, I only have to go to my local shop on a friday night to have groups of them falling about and asking me to go in the shop and get them more cheap cider :S

Even as adults, I dont see the need in getting blind drunk where you pass out and cant remember a thing the next day, I like a drink, but I know when I have had enough, and I stop. Shame others dont seem to be able to do that too.

I'm the same... I'll have a drink with friends, or have friends round and maybe get a bit daft, but never falling-over drunk and I'd never be drunk in public. I don't know where this country went wrong, really. Loads of the young people I know get tanked up before they even go out.

[Kizzy]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing...This poor child, her life may be ruined by this abuse.
Why it has to come down to a hand wringing lament to 'family values' I'm not sure, there were any societal issues in relation to the case...
Simply two sober young men taking advantage of a vulnerable child.
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk...se_of_girl_14/