[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by seanraff07

For those going to Euro 2012, yeah. In normal league games they want to re-present their support and protect them, unless they are Blacks as was evident in the documentary. It gives all Ultras groups a bad name though which is a shame, there's a fair few Ultras groups here and we are nothing like that.

I'm not being 'wide' here as I'm not into the football thing in any real sense: so what about I were to ask if possibly incredibly stupid and probably ignorant question : why don't those Ultras who want no association with these scumballs - not breakaway and form another support group with another name not linked to Ultras?

(I know, it's most likely the most silly question out - but as I say: an avid football fan I am not).

[seanraff07]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I'm not being 'wide' here as I'm not into the football thing in any real sense: so what about I were to ask if possibly incredibly stupid and probably ignorant question : why don't those Ultras who want no association with these scumballs - not breakaway and form another support group with another name not linked to Ultras?

(I know, it's most likely the most silly question out - but as I say: an avid football fan I am not).

Fair point. I can't really give you a proper answer but I think it's just the fact that there are thousands and thousands of Ultras groups so it wouldn't be easy to get so many of them to break away from the name and form something new. And Ultras have been the known thing for the really noisy, passionate supporters for years and years now, think it would be hard to break away from that. Some groups here though don't give themselves an Ultras tag, and class themselves as more of a supporters group, to keep the rest of their support and the club onside.

[Kizzy]

Would you be worried also that the ultras would view you as fair game, if you are not for us you are against us kind of?...

This stuff gets dragged up before the start of tournaments. It's organised crime (South Africa), Mafia (Italy) and now racist violence.

These competitions are such a big deal for trade, and as a showcase, that the governments stamp down on these things immediately, and will have a lot of security in place.

I'd be surprised if anything serious really kicked off. Racism isn't a huge problem with English football these days. No doubt some fans are racist, in the same way that some police are racist, or MP's. Some will be scientologists or Freemasons.

People are generally stupid, and stupidity spreads itself across a cross section of the country.

Let's not forget that at Euro 96, people were worried about us.

Quick question for Sean - I enjoyed reading your post, but can you please explain how being a Hibs "ultra" gives you an insight into the world of these guys?

[seanraff07]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Would you be worried also that the ultras would view you as fair game, if you are not for us you are against us kind of?...

I think they will attack anyone with colours on at Euro 2012, or other groups/gangs they have arranged to fight. Normal league games it is normally organised fighting away from the ground which sometimes continues inside it.

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

This stuff gets dragged up before the start of tournaments. It's organised crime (South Africa), Mafia (Italy) and now racist violence.

These competitions are such a big deal for trade, and as a showcase, that the governments stamp down on these things immediately, and will have a lot of security in place.

I'd be surprised if anything serious really kicked off. Racism isn't a huge problem with English football these days. No doubt some fans are racist, in the same way that some police are racist, or MP's. Some will be scientologists or Freemasons.

People are generally stupid, and stupidity spreads itself across a cross section of the country.

Let's not forget that at Euro 96, people were worried about us.

Quick question for Sean - I enjoyed reading your post, but can you please explain how being a Hibs "ultra" gives you an insight into the world of these guys?

It doesn't give me an insight, for example after researching for a few months your knowledge would be the same as mines. It's just as an Ultra, you want to keep up to date with other ongoings with other groups so you know what you are up against. These Polish Ultras know how to put on brilliant displays pre-match etc they are the best in the world for that along with Germany, Holland, Turkey etc... we can look to these groups for ways of deisgning displays etc for our matches. It's just the violence/racism bit that really lets them down, just hate to think that neutral folk watching end up getting that impression about all ultra groups.

[Harry!]

I did watch this and I found it fasinating how racism is allowed to happen like that. Some countries are still quite behind socially. But I would expect this is a minority case.

Originally Posted by seanraff07

I think they will attack anyone with colours on at Euro 2012, or other groups/gangs they have arranged to fight. Normal league games it is normally organised fighting away from the ground which sometimes continues inside it.



It doesn't give me an insight, for example after researching for a few months your knowledge would be the same as mines. It's just as an Ultra, you want to keep up to date with other ongoings with other groups so you know what you are up against. These Polish Ultras know how to put on brilliant displays pre-match etc they are the best in the world for that along with Germany, Holland, Turkey etc... we can look to these groups for ways of deisgning displays etc for our matches. It's just the violence/racism bit that really lets them down, just hate to think that neutral folk watching end up getting that impression about all ultra groups.

I think "Ultras" in the Hibs sense of the word, is another way of describing for passionate supporters. However, "Ultras" as far as Italy and Eastern Europe have an entirely different MO.

You may be entirely correct about the bloodbath foreign fans are facing this summer, but I don't believe there is a chance on hell of that happening.

[seanraff07]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

I think "Ultras" in the Hibs sense of the word, is another way of describing for passionate supporters. However, "Ultras" as far as Italy and Eastern Europe have an entirely different MO.

You may be entirely correct about the bloodbath foreign fans are facing this summer, bit I don't believe there is a chance on hell of that happening.

Yeah, obviously folk here in ultras groups get banned from games but it's for stuff like setting off flares etc, whereas over there flares etc are legal and you rarely get pinched for the racist chants over there, do that over here and you'd get lifted and given a lifetime ban straight away. I think the mentality over there is just over the top and they take things far too seriously.

A lot of them don't have another life over there, it's just all football so everything they believe in they bring to the football to if that makes sense.

There may not be masses of trouble - if Police want to prevent it then they will need to be armoured in much bigger numbers than usual, Ultras regularly get the better of Polis over there as the groups are so large.

[Niall]

Just watched this. I didn't think it would be that bad but my God was it disgusting the way those people acted.

Originally Posted by seanraff07

Yeah, obviously folk here in ultras groups get banned from games but it's for stuff like setting off flares etc, whereas over there flares etc are legal and you rarely get pinched for the racist chants over there, do that over here and you'd get lifted and given a lifetime ban straight away. I think the mentality over there is just over the top and they take things far too seriously.

A lot of them don't have another life over there, it's just all football so everything they believe in they bring to the football to if that makes sense.

There may not be masses of trouble - if Police want to prevent it then they will need to be armoured in much bigger numbers than usual, Ultras regularly get the better of Polis over there as the groups are so large.

[MTVN]

Watching it now, I'm really surprised about the anti-semitism in Krakow in particular, I went there about 18 months ago and there were quite a lot of Jews around because it's so near to Auschwitz and was where they had a major ghetto they sent them before exterminating them, it's strange people can be so against Jews so close to where about a million of them died, along with Poles who the Nazi's also sent there