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lostalex · 13-06-2012, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I think in some cases, like the one in the article, then naming and prosecuting these people is warranted, there is a big difference between free speech and spreading revolting lies about a person and defaming their character.

Putting yourself up for criticism is one thing but being labelled a paedophile for someone elses entertainment is quite another.

being called names is not a good reason to criminalize speech.

Should i be able to have every one arrested who ever says something homophobic? why is it only celebrities and people in the public eye who seem to get this special treatment? this isn't just about freedom of speech it's also about elitism. Just like the super injunctions.

We live in a SOCIETY. you don't have a right to privacy if you put yourself in the public eye. No one is forced to be in the public eye, no one is forced to have a facebook account or a twitter account. When you put yourself out into society you also put yourself open to criticism and ridicule.

this is just as much about the class system in europe as it is about the freedom of speech.

When's the last time a court defended some working class person who was called an ASBO or a chav online?? WHy is it only the RIch people who seem to be getting this kind of defense from the government??

Kazanne · 13-06-2012, 12:47 PM

I agree with the majority on this,Internet trolls are nothing but computer cowards and some of their comments to berieved people for example are sickening,we might have the freedom of speech but if a person cannot talk without being vile then they have no rights on the net,let them go to tell the person to their face !! it would soon stop.

Niamh. · 13-06-2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

being called names is not a good reason to criminalize speech.

Should i be able to have every one arrested who ever says something homophobic? why is it only celebrities and people in the public eye who seem to get this special treatment? this isn't just about freedom of speech it's also about elitism. Just like the super injunctions.

We live in a SOCIETY. you don't have a right to privacy if you put yourself in the public eye. No one is forced to be in the public eye, no one is forced to have a facebook account or a twitter account. When you put yourself out into society you also put yourself open to criticism and ridicule.

this is just as much about the class system in europe as it is about the freedom of speech.

When's the last time a court defended some working class person who was called an ASBO or a chav online?? WHy is it only the RIch people who seem to be getting this kind of defense from the government??

Well, say what you want, but I don't class harassment of people for no apparent reason other than the fact that these people get some sort of kicks from it, as free speech, in fact it's a mockery of free speech. People should be able to have Facebook accounts without the threat of some bored stranger deciding to harass them for no reason.

lostalex · 13-06-2012, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well, say what you want, but I don't class harassment of people for no apparent reason other than the fact that these people get some sort of kicks from it, as free speech, in fact it's a mockery of free speech. People should be able to have Facebook accounts without the threat of some bored stranger deciding to harass them for no reason.

i'm sure they would disagree that they said it for no reason. And even if they did say it for no reason, even if they did say it just for the Lulz, then that makes this whole thing even more ridiculous.
Yur banning free speech cause someone said something ridiculous? toughen the eff up.

If someone reports her to the cops calling her a pedophile that is already illegal, making a false report is already illegal. The laws don't need any changing.

Niamh. · 13-06-2012, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

i'm sure they would disagree that they said it for no reason. And even if they did say it for no reason, even if they did say it just for the Lulz, then that makes this whole thing even more ridiculous.
Yur banning free speech cause someone said something ridiculous? toughen the eff up.

If someone reports her to the cops calling her a pedophile that is already illegal, making a false report is already illegal. The laws don't need any changing.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I believe everyone should be allowed to use the internet, it shouldn't be only there for Trolls and people with tough skins, you wouldn't be allowed harass someone like that in r/l and you shouldn't be allowed harass someone on the net either. I do believe in free speech but I believe there is a difference between free speech and harassment

lostalex · 13-06-2012, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I believe everyone should be allowed to use the internet, it shouldn't be only there for Trolls and people with tough skins, you wouldn't be allowed harass someone like that in r/l and you shouldn't be allowed harass someone on the net either. I do believe in free speech but I believe there is a difference between free speech and harassment

actually yur wrong, if i was at a bar and got into an argument with someone and just flippantly said "you are an ugly, fagggot pedophile!" do you honestly think i'd be arrested? no of course not. getting into a verbal spar with someone in a pub doesn't get you arrested. You might get kicked out of the pub and told to go home but yu certainly wouldn't get arrested.

So if it's okay to say in real life in a pub, why isn't it okay online? iF everyone was arrested for calling eachother names we should ALL be in jail.

Niamh. · 13-06-2012, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

actually yur wrong, if i was at a bar and got into an argument with someone and just flippantly said "you are an ugly, fagggot pedophile!" do you honestly think i'd be arrested? no of course not. getting into a verbal spar with someone in a pub doesn't get you arrested.

So if it's okay to say in real life in a pub, why isn't it okay online? iF everyone was arrested for calling eachother names we should ALL be in jail.

I said harassment not a one time insult or argument, If that same person was following you around calling you a paedophile then yes they would most likely be arrested.

lostalex · 13-06-2012, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I said harassment not a one time insult or argument, If that same person was following you around calling you a paedophile then yes they would most likely be arrested.

But this was not a case of harassment. No one was following her arround harassing her. these were all individuals. You can't set up a facebook page to the public and then just complain because you don't like what people have to say. Facebook has privacy settings.

lostalex · 13-06-2012, 01:10 PM

This is like saying that if a stand up comic gets on stage, anyone who heckles them should be arrested.

Niamh. · 13-06-2012, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

But this was not a case of harassment. No one was following her arround harassing her. these were all individuals. You can't set up a facebook page to the public and then just complain because you don't like what people have to say. Facebook has privacy settings.

Well, apparently you can

lostalex · 13-06-2012, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well, apparently you can

yes because of fascist policies. Just like in most countries (not the US) they can arrest you for talking ill of their dear leaders. Hell you can be stoned to death in a lot of countries for saying offensive things about mohammed.

Just cause it's the law doesn't make it right.

Niamh. · 13-06-2012, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

yes because of fascist policies. Just like in most countries (not the US) they can arrest you for talking ill of their dear leaders. Hell you can be stoned to death in a lot of countries for saying offensive things about mohammed.

Just cause it's the law doesn't make it right.

And just because you don't agree with it, it doesn't make it wrong either

Livia · 13-06-2012, 01:37 PM

Good. There is a place for people sick enough to say some of the things trolls say, and the Internet is not that place.

People do tend to get confused about Freedom of Speech. It does not mean you can blurt out any half-baked, ill-thought through idea that pops into your mind, it is far more intricate than that. You cannot give someone the "freedom" to oppress and violate someone else. I say that not because it is my opinion, I say that as a lawyer.

Niamh. · 13-06-2012, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

Good. There is a place for people sick enough to say some of the things trolls say, and the Internet is not that place.

People do tend to get confused about Freedom of Speech. It does not mean you can blurt out any half-baked, ill-thought through idea that pops into your mind, it is far more intricate than that. You cannot give someone the "freedom" to oppress and violate someone else. I say that not because it is my opinion, I say that as a lawyer.

Exactly Livia, said far more eloquently than I could

Livia · 13-06-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Exactly Livia, said far more eloquently than I could

Thanks... but not true!

Marsh. · 13-06-2012, 01:58 PM

I think some people are confusing throwing out an insult with persistent harassment and bullying. It wouldn't be tolerated in the real world so it shouldn't online.

spitfire · 13-06-2012, 02:11 PM

I will get a life sentance!

Livia · 13-06-2012, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 08marsh

I think some people are confusing throwing out an insult with persistent harassment and bullying. It wouldn't be tolerated in the real world so it shouldn't online.

Exactly. And also, while I fully support people's freedom to criticise a corrupt regime or to speak out against oppression and injustice, I do not support their freedom to call someone, for instance, a filthy Jew. Trolls need to be made accountable, and I'm sure the vast majority of them would say nothing if they couldn't rely on what they believed to be the anonimity of the Internet.

Niamh. · 13-06-2012, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

Exactly. And also, while I fully support people's freedom to criticise a corrupt regime or to speak out against oppression and injustice, I do not support their freedom to call someone, for instance, a filthy Jew. Trolls need to be made accountable, and I'm sure the vast majority of them would say nothing if they couldn't rely on what they believed to be the anonimity of the Internet.

Exactly, they're very brave sitting there behind their keyboards

Omah · 13-06-2012, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

censorship is civilized? really? Well i guess if you think fascism is civilized...

There is nothing civilized about restricting speech.

Yeah, as I understand it, the Southern States of the USA are the most democratic and tolerant regimes in the world - no repession, free expression, black or white, you're in the right .....

Omah · 13-06-2012, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

actually yur wrong, if i was at a bar and got into an argument with someone and just flippantly said "you are an ugly, fagggot pedophile!" do you honestly think i'd be arrested? no of course not. getting into a verbal spar with someone in a pub doesn't get you arrested. You might get kicked out of the pub and told to go home but yu certainly wouldn't get arrested.

So if it's okay to say in real life in a pub, why isn't it okay online? iF everyone was arrested for calling eachother names we should ALL be in jail.

I believe that your approach at such flippancy in a pub would end in your hospitalisation .....

Omah · 13-06-2012, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

Exactly. And also, while I fully support people's freedom to criticise a corrupt regime or to speak out against oppression and injustice, I do not support their freedom to call someone, for instance, a filthy Jew. Trolls need to be made accountable, and I'm sure the vast majority of them would say nothing if they couldn't rely on what they believed to be the anonimity of the Internet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Exactly, they're very brave sitting there behind their keyboards

Yeah, that's the point of this particular amendment. I'm sure that Twitter will be next on the list .....