[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Prime example of people believing everything that they read and take it as gospel.

THAT 'actual transcript' was a hoax.

OK I know now but when I googled 'Jimmy Saville' it was like the fourth thing that came up. At that time there was no reason not to believe it and the hoax claims were not confirmed. I was not under the impression that my journalistic integrity was going to be questioned. I was under the impression that this was a forum and people could post pretty much what they liked just as long as it was within the rules of the forum.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

So these nurses (plural) allegedly knew what was going on: allowed JS to allegedly 'abuse' their young very seriously ill patients when the 'want took him', and they all kept their mouths shut because he rasied funds for the hospital?

Very odd state of affairs.

Not really that odd. The man was like a Saint in many people eyes.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

OK I know now but when I googled 'Jimmy Saville' it was like the fourth thing that came up. At that time there was no reason not to believe it and the hoax claims were not confirmed. I was not under the impression that my journalistic integrity was going to be questioned. I was under the impression that this was a forum and people could post pretty much what they liked just as long as it was within the rules of the forum.

My point being: all it takes is one person to put up something that is false - and as can be seen by the comments put up after you posted this: the people who commented on it - believing it to be a true & genuine transcript and jumping on the pitchfork crew bandwagon...... because they simply believe anything /everything that is being presented, as factual.

That's my point in all of this whole sorry saga.

I do feel that there may indeed have been some serious misdoings of some sort on the part of JS - to what extent, I'm unsure: however it shows that such 'links and stories' do nothing but fan the flames - when there is absolutely no substance to it (ie: the link) - which then discredits any other possible 'real and truth' behind the story.

You see where I am coming from?

[Marc]

I just had the news on and heard about allegations of him molesting sick children in hospital if this is true then this guy was disgusting

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

My point being: all it takes is one person to put up something that is false - and as can be seen by the comments put up after you posted this: the people who commented on it - believing it to be a true & genuine transcript and jumping on the pitchfork crew bandwagon...... because they simply believe anything /everything that is being presented, as factual.

That's my point in all of this whole sorry saga.

I do feel that there may indeed have been some serious misdoings of some sort on the part of JS - to what extent, I'm unsure: however it shows that such 'links and stories' do nothing but fan the flames - when there is absolutely no substance to it (ie: the link) - which then discredits any other possible 'real and truth' behind the story.

You see where I am coming from?

Not really. This is neither a court of law or a news outlet.
At the heart of this case are about 30 women who have never met each other who all have strikingly similar stories about what Jimmy Saville did to them. There may be some embellishment but I doubt all 30 of them simply thought of the same lie.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Not really that odd. The man was like a Saint in many people eyes.

Nurses who allege that they knew what he was like, what he did, what he was capable of (allegedly) warning young ill patients to pretend to be asleep - whilst allowing JS to (allegedly) carry on with other young ill patients instead - well, he wouldn't have been regarded as a 'Saint' in their eyes.

Also beggars belief that these nurses were so 'aware' that they allowed others to fall 'victim' when these nurses claim to have known what was going on.

If nursing staff weren't prepared to protect such young vulnerable patients under their care - I hope they are very ashamed of themselves if there is truth to any of this: for they allowed subsequent abuse to continue instead of kicking up a massive stink .... all because it surrounded 'money for the hospital'.

does this mean they were prepared to 'sacrfice' some 'victims' so the fundraising and monies being raised by JS woud continue?

Doesn't that mean they have something as serious to answer to...ie: perverting the course of justice and allowing a known abuser onto their wards?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Not really. This is neither a court of law or a news outlet.

I'm aware of that..... and I'm glad you proven what I've said since the start of the thread.

It only takes one person to put up something that is completely and utterly false: and for others to follow blindly - believing it to be the truth and jump on the story without knowing the facts.....

In reply to your edit on your post since I quoted it: with you now mentioning the 30 women that police are investigating their stories: that's not what I am speaking of: I was specifically directing back to you quoting a very incorrect and untruthful article: believing it to be true and others thinking the same.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Nurses who allege that they knew what he was like, what he did, what he was capable of (allegedly) warning young ill patients to pretend to be asleep - whilst allowing JS to (allegedly) carry on with other young ill patients instead - well, he wouldn't have been regarded as a 'Saint' in their eyes.

Also beggars belief that these nurses were so 'aware' that they allowed others to fall 'victim' when these nurses claim to have known what was going on.

If nursing staff weren't prepared to protect such young vulnerable patients under their care - I hope they are very ashamed of themselves if there is truth to any of this: for they allowed subsequent abuse to continue instead of kicking up a massive stink .... all because it surrounded 'money for the hospital'.

does this mean they were prepared to 'sacrfice' some 'victims' so the fundraising and monies being raised by JS woud continue?

Doesn't that mean they have something as serious to answer to...ie: perverting the course of justice and allowing a known abuser onto their wards?

Who knows what kind of pressure the nurses were under. In that day and age he was one of the biggest stars in this country. In those days we had three channels no internet, no cable. Stars in those days were real stars and were virtually untouchable. No Only way is Essex z Listers back then. A couple of nurses couldn't take on Jimmy Saville.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Who knows what kind of pressure the nurses were under. In that day and age he was one of the biggest stars in this country. In those days we had three channels no internet, no cable. Stars in those days were real stars and were virtually untouchable. No Only way is Essex z Listers back then. A couple of nurses couldn't take on Jimmy Saville.

Well if the 'reports' are to be believed: everyone and their granny knew about what JS was upto.

No one is THAT powerful.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I'm aware of that..... and I'm glad you proven what I've said since the start of the thread.

It only takes one person to put up something that is completely and utterly false: and for others to follow blindly - believing it to be the truth and jump on the story without knowing the facts.....

In reply to your edit on your post since I quoted it: with you now mentioning the 30 women that police are investigating their stories: that's not what I am speaking of: I was specifically directing back to you quoting a very incorrect and untruthful article: believing it to be true and others thinking the same.

My bad I posted the article but as I said before there was no reason to doubt it at the time. It was one of the lead stories that came up when I Googled Jimmy Saville.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Well if the 'reports' are to be believed: everyone and their granny knew about what JS was upto.

No one is THAT powerful.

OK if you say so. So enlighten us with your opinion. If no one is THAT powerful then what do you think is going on here? Are you saying none of it is true? I'd like to know your stance you seem to be - as usual- arguing for the sake of it.

[Omah]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-children.html

One woman said Savile took advantage of her when she was 13 years old and in a wheelchair at Stoke Mandeville Hospital in 1971.

Caroline Moore, now 53, recalled an episode in which Savile approached her silently as she sat alone in a corridor.

She had been recovering in the children's ward at Stoke Mandeville Hospital in 1971 following an operation to fuse her spine.

"I was quite shy and lonely,” she said. “I don’t remember him saying anything to me but he leant down and I was excited because I thought he was going to give me a wee peck on the cheek.

"But he took my face in his hands and rammed his tongue down my throat. I was shocked.

"I had never been kissed and I didn’t really know what had happened – only that it made me absolutely shudder.

"Afterwards he just walked off as if nothing had happened."

Ms Moore, paralysed from the chest down following a car accident when she was 20 months old, said she had been left "haunted" by the incident.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

OK if you say so. So enlighten us with your opinion. If no one is THAT powerful then what do you think is going on here? Are you saying none of it is true? I'd like to know your stance you seem to be - as usual- arguing for the sake of it.

I do say so and my opinion is that I am happy to wait until correct and full investigations have taken place: without jumping on bandwagons and believing every single little thing that happens to be posted online - and that is what I believe 'is going on here'.


I am not saying any of what has been stated is untrue: what I AM saying is that too many people seem too quick to conclusions..... as has been shown by you putting up a false untrue link: and many others (not on here, on the internet I mean) - have also been duped into believing such drivel.

that's not arguing Girth, despite your penchance for trying to make it so: what I've just stated above it the truth of the matter.

All I have said in the past few posts happens to be my opinion, of which I'm entitled as is anyone on here to state: and my opinion I feel is a a healthy opinion (in my view).

I do believe in there's no smoke without fire: but I also believe in facts and real hard evidence being sought out and determined without any shadow of doubt - rather than sucking in anything and everything that's put out as being the truth.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Nurses who allege that they knew what he was like, what he did, what he was capable of (allegedly) warning young ill patients to pretend to be asleep - whilst allowing JS to (allegedly) carry on with other young ill patients instead - well, he wouldn't have been regarded as a 'Saint' in their eyes.

Also beggars belief that these nurses were so 'aware' that they allowed others to fall 'victim' when these nurses claim to have known what was going on.

If nursing staff weren't prepared to protect such young vulnerable patients under their care - I hope they are very ashamed of themselves if there is truth to any of this: for they allowed subsequent abuse to continue instead of kicking up a massive stink .... all because it surrounded 'money for the hospital'.

does this mean they were prepared to 'sacrfice' some 'victims' so the fundraising and monies being raised by JS woud continue?

Doesn't that mean they have something as serious to answer to...ie: perverting the course of justice and allowing a known abuser onto their wards?

Have you checked the reliability of this source pyra?
I commented on a post yesterday before I had, would you like to borrow my pitchfork? =)

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I do say so and my opinion is that I am happy to wait until correct and full investigations have taken place: without jumping on bandwagons and believing every single little thing that happens to be posted online - and that is what I believe 'is going on here'.


I am not saying any of what has been stated is untrue: what I AM saying is that too many people seem too quick to conclusions..... as has been shown by you putting up a false untrue link: and many others (not on here, on the internet I mean) - have also been duped into believing such drivel.

that's not arguing Girth, despite your penchance for trying to make it so: what I've just stated above it the truth of the matter.

All I have said in the past few posts happens to be my opinion, of which I'm entitled as is anyone on here to state: and my opinion I feel is a a healthy opinion (in my view).

I do believe in there's no smoke without fire: but I also believe in facts and real hard evidence being sought out and determined without any shadow of doubt - rather than sucking in anything and everything that's put out as being the truth.

you initially made a point that a couple of people had already made. ie that the article has now been discredited. If you'd have agreed with the others - who got there first BTW - then OK but you decided to quote my article. Like it was actually news that it has now been disproved. Hence me jumping to the supposedly false opinion that you were arguing - again - for the sake of it. I also believe in fact and that article is the first thing I've posted for years that I was not sure about.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Have you checked the reliability of this source pyra?
I commented on a post yesterday before I had, would you like to borrow my pitchfork? =)

I'm putting over an opinion - and am perfectly entitled to do that Kizzy. It is a fact: these supposed nurses have in effect covered up for JS if there is any truth in the allegations: they too then have to bear a responsibility to those place in their care & protection........ it could be said that they were willing to 'sacrifice' some other victims.

Unfortunate Kizzy if you don't like me saying that, but that's very much something that should be considered in all of this. I'm not happy in jumping the gun: I'm happy to suggest other things that may have impacted as a question for discussion which is precisely what my post reference the nurses and those in the know possibily having to be also held accountable.

'all these people all supposedy in the know'....and yet it all stayed so quiet? That is a point for discussion - regardless of what one believes in all of this.

So yes, I do believe there is much muck raking to go on.

I'll pass on the pitchfork: as I'm quite happy to debate and discuss ALL angles of this story: without doing as others have done: and JUMP to conclusions - but instead, I am willing to discuss other aspects of what is 'allegedly' coming to light.

After all: is is a discussion thread.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

you initially made a point that a couple of people had already made. ie that the article has now been discredited. If you'd have agreed with the others - who got there first BTW - then OK but you decided to quote my article. Like it was actually news that it has now been disproved. Hence me jumping to the supposedly false opinion that you were arguing - again - for the sake of it. I also believe in fact and that article is the first thing I've posted for years that I was not sure about.

I haven't been on the thread for a few days - that's the way it works.

As I say: it's a typical example of someone putting up for public consumption: false information and people believing it as gospel without as second thought.

It's a valid point and it remains a valid point: what other information that's being published is incorrect - but people are blindly accepting it as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I'm putting over an opinion - and am perfectly entitled to do that Kizzy. It is a fact: these supposed nurses have in effect covered up for JS if there is any truth in the allegations: they too then have to bear a responsibility to those place in their care & protection........ it could be said that they were willing to 'sacrifice' some other victims.

Unfortunate Kizzy if you don't like me saying that, but that's very much something that should be considered in all of this. I'm not happy in jumping the gun: I'm happy to suggest other things that may have impacted as a question for discussion which is precisely what my post reference the nurses and those in the know possibily having to be also held accountable.

'all these people all supposedy in the know'....and yet it all stayed so quiet? That is a point for discussion - regardless of what one believes in all of this.

So yes, I do believe there is much muck raking to go on.

I'll pass on the pitchfork: as I'm quite happy to debate and discuss ALL angles of this story: without doing as others have done: and JUMP to conclusions - but instead, I am willing to discuss other aspects of what is 'allegedly' coming to light.

After all: is is a discussion thread.

Thats waffle.

What crime do you think the nurses have committed or do you think they should be given a stern talking to or named and shamed? I dont see the point you're trying to make here.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

OK I know now but when I googled 'Jimmy Saville' it was like the fourth thing that came up. At that time there was no reason not to believe it and the hoax claims were not confirmed. I was not under the impression that my journalistic integrity was going to be questioned. I was under the impression that this was a forum and people could post pretty much what they liked just as long as it was within the rules of the forum.

It did make for a pretty funny read though

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Thats waffle.

What crime do you think the nurses have committed or do you think they should be given a stern talking to or named and shamed? I dont see the point you're trying to make here.

Try reading back a few posts Girth.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It did make for a pretty funny read though

Yeah, really funny reading lies made up about someone ......

If that's your bag I suppose.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I haven't been on the thread for a few days - that's the way it works.

As I say: it's a typical example of someone putting up for public consumption: false information and people believing it as gospel without as second thought.

It's a valid point and it remains a valid point: what other information that's being published is incorrect - but people are blindly accepting it as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I've already made this point. There will obviously be some embellishment but the heart of the case seem to either be true or based on an amazing lie that 30 women all thought of at the same time.

[Vanessa]

I think there's some truth to the allegations. Police say that there could be between 20/25 victims. All young teenage girls.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Try reading back a few posts Girth.

Huh. I'm asking which of these options do you believe to be true? No need to read back I'm trying to get you to actually make a point regarding your stance on this matter. Why do you keep mentioning the nurses who covered it up? Do you think they are actually guilty of a crime? You're the one who needs to read back.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I've already made this point. There will obviously be some embellishment but the heart of the case seem to either be true or based on an amazing lie that 30 women all thought of at the same time.

Originally Posted by Vanessa

I think there's some truth to the allegations. Police say that there could be between 20/25 victims. All young teenage girls.

quite some difference in the totals - ranging from 20 to hundreds to thousands having taken into account some of the comments regarding the numbers invovled (throughout the thread).


Girth: the point I am focusing on is those, (by your own admission) that there will ''Obviously be some embellishment''..... for whatever reason.

That is the very thing that is likely to damage this investigation - and tarnish it. I do believe there may indeed may be something untoward: but the more embellishment that is taking place; the more harmful that may be to any truth behind all of this and will suffice in only damaging the investigations - THAT is my very point.