[Ammi]

..I guess you have to stop using it if you start to suffer any sort of anxieties.....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I guess you have to stop using it if you start to suffer any sort of anxieties.....

Bit late then, psychological changes are irreversible.

found a test, who dares do it? haha
http://www.rit.edu/ntid/saisd/surveys/cudit

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I say it can.
QUOTE:
Is there such a thing as ‘cannabis psychosis’?

Recent research in Denmark suggests that yes, there is. It is a short-lived psychotic disorder that seems to be brought on by cannabis use but which subsides fairly quickly once the individual has stopped using it. It's quite unusual though – in the whole of Denmark they found only around 100 new cases per year.

However, they also found that:

Three quarters had a different psychotic disorder diagnosed within the next year.
Nearly half still had a psychotic disorder 3 years later.

So, it also seems probable that nearly half of those diagnosed as having cannabis psychosis are actually showing the first signs of a more long-lasting psychotic disorder, such as schizophrenia. It may be this group of people who are particularly vulnerable to the effects of cannabis, and so should probably avoid it in the future.

..no, Kizzy, it says in your report they are not....

..the only ones which may not be reversable are those which already existed....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I say it can.
QUOTE:
Is there such a thing as ‘cannabis psychosis’?

Recent research in Denmark suggests that yes, there is. It is a short-lived psychotic disorder that seems to be brought on by cannabis use but which subsides fairly quickly once the individual has stopped using it. It's quite unusual though – in the whole of Denmark they found only around 100 new cases per year.

However, they also found that:

Three quarters had a different psychotic disorder diagnosed within the next year.
Nearly half still had a psychotic disorder 3 years later.

So, it also seems probable that nearly half of those diagnosed as having cannabis psychosis are actually showing the first signs of a more long-lasting psychotic disorder, such as schizophrenia. It may be this group of people who are particularly vulnerable to the effects of cannabis, and so should probably avoid it in the future.

There are changes, they just may happen at different times due to the individual. 3yrs, 6, 9...

[Ammi]

..you need to carry on highlighting down as I did, where it states these cases may be particularly vulnerable and so should avoid it....

..nothing can legislate against everything and people do have to take some responsibility for themselves....if anything i.e a prescribed drug is having any adverse effects then the obvious and logical thing would be to stop taking it......

..and if anyone who has any inherent mental issues chooses to use cannabis and ignore any issues which may arise, then I wouldn't have thought it being legal or illegal will make the slightest bit of difference.....therefore I say legalise it...it is comparitably less harmful than other legal substances...

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kizzy

You have posted nothing of any merit, I have asked you to reveal the sources of your information and you refuse.

If I post some information for you will you please stop insulting me?
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/expertadvic.../cannabis.aspx

There you go, once again can I say I do not agree with the legalisation.

Because the information I've posted is simply common knowledge, if you did even a little research you'd see that a lot of what I'm saying is correct. You keep going on the offensive demanding me to pretty much reference everything when really fact checking someone's argument is the job of the opposition.

I've made claims and you have not been able to refute them at all, all you've tried to do is cast aspersions in order to deflect from the fact that you haven't got an argument.

I'll give you one last chance, I'll basically compile a brief overview of all my points to see if you can counter any of them without being evasive or resorting to any of your usual tricks.

Pros of Cannabis
- Less toxic then the likes of cigarettes or Alcohol. To overdose on Cannabis you have to smoke around a thousand joints in 10 minutes to reach fatal toxic levels which is pretty much impossible to do.
- It's a powerful painkiller that (leading on from my previous point) is impossible to overdose on and the side effects CAN be lesser than that of some prescription drugs.
- There's no recorded deaths attributed to Cannabis, there's thousands every year because of smoking and Alcohol.
- Partaking in it can actually help prevent the effects of a lot of diseases. Some of which include Alzheimer's, MS, Hepatitis, Epilepsy and Depression. There's plenty of other illnesses it helps with as well.
- Less addictive and generally safer than legal substances.
- Generally calms people down so there's less chance of Anti-Social behavior then there might be if someone was drunk.

I'm pretty sure I've made more points on the subject that I can't quite remember. The only negative that's been stated about it is the psychological aspect which other members have stated is down to bad growth which in countries where it's legal it isn't as much of a problem since there's guidelines and regulations involved that prevent legitimate stores from selling bad Cannabis.

A bad batch could mess with your mind, Home made beer that's incorrectly brewed can kill you.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..you need to carry on highlighting down as I did, where it states these cases may be particularly vulnerable and so should avoid it....

..nothing can legislate against everything and people do have to take some responsibility for themselves....if anything i.e a prescribed drug is having any adverse effects then the obvious and logical thing would be to stop taking it......

..and if anyone who has any inherent mental issues chooses to use cannabis and ignore any issues which may arise, then I wouldn't have thought it being legal or illegal will make the slightest bit of difference.....therefore I say legalise it...it is comparitably less harmful than other legal substances...

Once again...how would you know if it was inherant?
We are going around in circles here ammi, bringing alcohol and other medicines into the debate is not an argument for legalisation in my opinion.
9/10 it is smoked so there are the associated health implications there for a start.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Because the information I've posted is simply common knowledge, if you did even a little research you'd see that a lot of what I'm saying is correct. You keep going on the offensive demanding me to pretty much reference everything when really fact checking someone's argument is the job of the opposition.

I've made claims and you have not been able to refute them at all, all you've tried to do is cast aspersions in order to deflect from the fact that you haven't got an argument.

I'll give you one last chance, I'll basically compile a brief overview of all my points to see if you can counter any of them without being evasive or resorting to any of your usual tricks.

Pros of Cannabis
- Less toxic then the likes of cigarettes or Alcohol. To overdose on Cannabis you have to smoke around a thousand joints in 10 minutes to reach fatal toxic levels which is pretty much impossible to do.
- It's a powerful painkiller that (leading on from my previous point) is impossible to overdose on and the side effects CAN be lesser than that of some prescription drugs.
- There's no recorded deaths attributed to Cannabis, there's thousands every year because of smoking and Alcohol.
- Partaking in it can actually help prevent the effects of a lot of diseases. Some of which include Alzheimer's, MS, Hepatitis, Epilepsy and Depression. There's plenty of other illnesses it helps with as well.
- Less addictive and generally safer than legal substances.
- Generally calms people down so there's less chance of Anti-Social behavior then there might be if someone was drunk.

I'm pretty sure I've made more points on the subject that I can't quite remember. The only negative that's been stated about it is the psychological aspect which other members have stated is down to bad growth which in countries where it's legal it isn't as much of a problem since there's guidelines and regulations involved that prevent legitimate stores from selling bad Cannabis.

A bad batch could mess with your mind, Home made beer that's incorrectly brewed can kill you.

No dezzy you are offensive!

You use cannabis with tobacco so the same risks apply...
Thats why prescription drugs are only available on prescription...and the advice states clearly with them there may be side effects, however it may be more detrimental to your health not to take them if you have a medical condition.
Again, you have to smoke to use cannabis ...the risk of death is the same.
It cannot 'prevent the effects' at best it may alleviate the symptoms as it relaxes muscles thats all..
You cannot suggest it is any more or less addictive than any other 'substance'
You may initially find it calms you down, fast forward 3yrs you are a paranoid wreck...what then?

Can we stop now?
I don't agree with the legalisation of cannabis
I'm sure I am not the only person in the UK.

[Livia]

Whether or not cannabis is legalised people will still use it. If it is not legalised its distribution and sale will remain in the hands of criminals and there can be no control over its quality. We're not talking about heroin here, and I think that those who are strongly against the legalisation of cannabis really don't understand the argument.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Livia

Whether or not cannabis is legalised people will still use it. If it is not legalised its distribution and sale will remain in the hands of criminals and there can be no control over its quality. We're not talking about heroin here, and I think that those who are strongly against the legalisation of cannabis really don't understand the argument.

Exactly and the minute cannabis becomes regulated by the government - not by hardcore criminals - is the minute it automatically becomes safer.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Whether or not cannabis is legalised people will still use it. If it is not legalised its distribution and sale will remain in the hands of criminals and there can be no control over its quality. We're not talking about heroin here, and I think that those who are strongly against the legalisation of cannabis really don't understand the argument.

Please don't patronise me...
I have the opinion that it should not be legalised, that is my argument and I have made points in support of it...
It is my opinion of which I am entitled, why some fail to appreciate that is beyond me.
Will the criminals suddenly hand over control of distribution then?..

[Redway]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Please don't patronise me...
I have the opinion that it should not be legalised, that is my argument and I have made points in support of it...
It is my opinion of which I am entitled, why some fail to appreciate that is beyond me.
Will the criminals suddenly hand over control of distribution then?..

Of course it's your opinion, which you are entitled. Just as everyone else is entitled to challenge them if they don't agree with them ... the whole reason for the sheer existence of internet forums, you know? What is the point in posting something if you can't even defend your ill thought-out views? You don't want a debate? Stop engaging in one then.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kizzy

No dezzy you are offensive!

You use cannabis with tobacco so the same risks apply...
Thats why prescription drugs are only available on prescription...and the advice states clearly with them there may be side effects, however it may be more detrimental to your health not to take them if you have a medical condition.
Again, you have to smoke to use cannabis ...the risk of death is the same.
It cannot 'prevent the effects' at best it may alleviate the symptoms as it relaxes muscles thats all..
You cannot suggest it is any more or less addictive than any other 'substance'
You may initially find it calms you down, fast forward 3yrs you are a paranoid wreck...what then?

Can we stop now?
I don't agree with the legalisation of cannabis
I'm sure I am not the only person in the UK.

Nothing but evasive tactics and ignoring a good chunk of my post once again. Why did I even expect anything different from you? Welcome to my ignore list, I have no interest in talking to someone who can't even discuss things properly. It's boring and you are boring me.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Nothing but evasive tactics and ignoring a good chunk of my post once again. Why did I even expect anything different from you? Welcome to my ignore list, I have no interest in talking to someone who can't even discuss things properly. It's boring and you are boring me.

I responded to your points , such as they were...
I was rational, and answered you with relevant information instead of personal opinion. Notice I did not throw any personal insults around dezzy.
I am happy to be on your ignore list, thankyou.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Redway

Of course it's your opinion, which you are entitled. Just as everyone else is entitled to challenge them if they don't agree with them ... the whole reason for the sheer existence of internet forums, you know? What is the point in posting something if you can't even defend your ill thought-out views? You don't want a debate? Stop engaging in one then.

Have I personally insulted anyone here?...no!
Comment on the OP and stop jumping on bandwagons please. By insulting me and my views it does not make your point any more valid, or your opinion any more credible than mine.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Once again...how would you know if it was inherant?
We are going around in circles here ammi, bringing alcohol and other medicines into the debate is not an argument for legalisation in my opinion.
9/10 it is smoked so there are the associated health implications there for a start.

..I apologise for taking so long to respond to your post Kizzy...I had an appointment....

...there are no circles to go around in..what there is, is a brick wall..the research you have shown actually states itself that there are no long term negative effects directly associated to cannabis...that's together with all of the other research posted by myself and others....

..now I know that you're an intelligent lady, so I know that you wouldn't post research which negates your own opinion unless there wasn't any to find to support it..because that wouldn't make sense at all....

...so, in the lack of any substantiated research to the contrary, I am in favour of legalising cannabis..I understand that you are not..and no, you won't be the only person with that ..you are perfectly entitled to be against it..but it is just your opinion, not backed up by any medical reasons...just as I and others are entitled to favour it...and the research backs this up....

...I don't have anymore to add to this thread...I think the circles can go around quite nicely without me...

..and I have been paying attention..I always pay attention to my own threads...

[Redway]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Have I personally insulted anyone here?...no!
Comment on the OP and stop jumping on bandwagons please. By insulting me and my views it does not make your point any more valid, or your opinion any more credible than mine.

You don't have to insult anyone to have ill thought-out views. You've basically just ignored all valid points on here just because you don't like them and then went on to post what you've said since the beginning of this thread. I'm not having a go, because I do like you kizzy, but you're not making much sense on this thread at all...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I apologise for taking so long to respond to your post Kizzy...I had an appointment....

...there are no circles to go around in..what there is, is a brick wall..the research you have shown actually states itself that there are no long term negative effects directly associated to cannabis...that's together with all of the other research posted by myself and others....

..now I know that you're an intelligent lady, so I know that you wouldn't post research which negates your own opinion unless there wasn't any to find to support it..because that wouldn't make sense at all....

...so, in the lack of any substantiated research to the contrary, I am in favour of legalising cannabis..I understand that you are not..and no, you won't be the only person with that ..you are perfectly entitled to be against it..but it is just your opinion, not backed up by any medical reasons...just as I and others are entitled to favour it...and the research backs this up....

...I don't have anymore to add to this thread...I think the circles can go around quite nicely without me...

..and I have been paying attention..I always pay attention to my own threads...

Well i'm back on the trusty old 3ds, so I won't be able to post links to any further information that strengthens my viewpoint unfortunately.
There is no 'brick wall' ammi'
I am intelligent enough to know that, I do however feel as if i'm talking to one on here sometimes.....lol
There most certainly is evidence to support the long term psychological health problems associated with long term cannabis use.
I appreciate you posted some information suggesting alcohol is worse than cannabis,and that may well be true, but I was not aware that was the topic in discussion.
To me it bears no relevance to whether or not cannabis is legalised or not...
I apologise for not being able to help you further find the necessary facts, however if you looked on the Royal College of Physicians website there will be links to many relevant articles. Failing that you could talk to FRANK

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Redway

You don't have to insult anyone to have ill thought-out views. You've basically just ignored all valid points on here just because you don't like them and then went on to post what you've said since the beginning of this thread. I'm not having a go, because I do like you kizzy, but you're not making much sense on this thread at all...

Was I meant to change my views mid thread?..
You are suggesting my view is ill thought out because you don't agree with it, that's fine..
It makes perfect sense redway, 'I do not agree with the legalisation of cannabis'..
Can you not understand that?
Anyone that does great! fair play to you...

[Redway]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Was I meant to change my views mid thread?..
You are suggesting my view is ill thought out because you don't agree with it, that's fine..
It makes perfect sense redway, 'I do not agree with the legalisation of cannabis'..
Can you not understand that?
Anyone that does great! fair play to you...

I understand. Just people on here don't agree with you. Can you not understand that?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Redway

I understand. Just people on here don't agree with you. Can you not understand that?

Of course I can!
Why that causes some to personally insult me I have no clue....
Do you see me doing this?....no
Why do I feel as if I have to apologise for not agreeing with the majority?...
If you have to deride, scoff, patronise and berate anyone who has an opposing opinion in an attempt to validate yours then to me you have a very weak argument initially.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Of course I can!
Why that causes some to personally insult me I have no clue....
Do you see me doing this?....no
Why do I feel as if I have to apologise for not agreeing with the majority?...
If you have to deride, scoff, patronise and berate anyone who has an opposing opinion in an attempt to validate yours then to me you have a very weak argument initially.

I didn't insult you, so please don't bring up the 'pity card'. I know these are your views and I accept them. I just think they're ridiculous given that you know (or should know) that alcohol and cigarettes, etc, are far more detrimental to society, yet people are allowed to do all that (and rightly so). You can't just cherry pick what people should do because you personally approve of it and decide to totally ignore the rest, no matter just how much evidence in the contrary...

And this is more than you just having views that the majority don't hold. This is you not knowing what you're talking about and having yet another person banging on about the same nonsense that people try and sell across thinking that cannabis is on the same level as cocaine.

[Kizzy]

Pity! what on earth are you talking about?
For the 10th time this thread is about the legalisation of cannabis.
NOT alcohol.
Where have I said cannabis is as bad as cocaine?....
I don't know what i'm talking about, and yet everyone else who support the legalisation is an expert?....haha!!
I have said all I want to to you on this topic redway.

[Redway]

Exactly. So err, why exactly are you in favour of people using alcohol, just not cannabis? Does alcohol not do more damage than cannabis and I don't see anyone calling for that to be banned? Because I don't see the point in allowing people to destroy themselves through excessive binge drinking (and of course they're entitled to do whatever it is they want to do with their bodies) but not allow someone get stoned through a harmless substance that doesn't cause any violence - and one which is automatically bound to improve in quality if out of the hands of criminals and into the hands of the government? The mind tickles.

[Kizzy]

If you want to discuss that start a thread don't hijack ammis.