[Redway]

Originally Posted by Marshmallow

It's hypocritical.

Arista can't dismiss God altogether but you can dismiss religion because you don't believe in it. People can do as they please.

Of course he can do as he pleases. Just as I can take on his posts if I disagree with them.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Scouse Prezzie

Of course he can do as he pleases. Just as I can take on his posts if I disagree with them.

Of course you can, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Marshmallow

Of course you can, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.

I don't see what you're on about. I just don't agree that there's no difference between a greater force and a religious force, which was my reply to arista, and if he disagrees with that then he's more than free to take on those points and criticise my ideas.

Still, if all that makes me hypocritical then so be it.

[Marsh.]

Arista clearly doesn't believe in any God whatsoever.

You say you believe in A God but apparently not a "religious one".

Neither opinion is more valid than the other one because you have no more proof organised religions are wrong than arista has of there being no God at all.

Thus, it's hypocritical to tell him he can't dismiss God altogether.

[Kizzy]

This whole farce is designed as a smokescreen to deflect from real issues..
Who the hell has decided that now is the time to raise this issue?...
Is is the LGBT community, or the tories in a desperate attempt to deflect interest away from the autumn statement?

[joeysteele]

I have tried to look at this from imagining if I was gay and wanted to get married.
I have to say it surprises me that gay individuals would want to get married in Churches that have been responsible for fuelling and acting out discrimination against them anyway.

Way back a few decades, in the CofE for instance, the idea of Women priests would have been considered a total no go area.Now they are very much on the increase,so maybe it is going to take the CofE a lot longer still to come round to allowing 'marriages' between 2 gay individuals.
I was brought up RC and the time for that coming in that faith is way off, they haven't even got round to even the thought of Women Priests yet.

So the Churches seem to be so far away from the real world still and hearing their objections makes some of them sound really prejudiced.
The RC for instance, uses terms as to homosexuality, hate the sin but not the sinner, how patronising and pathetic a line is that to hold.
There have been so many Churches and faiths springing up that maybe the best way forward is create another one.

For sure in my opinion, if there is a God, also as to Christianity and Jesus too, for the division and discrimination the Churches still practice then I would doubt likely any God would even want to look inside any of those Churches let alone listen to them.

I believe people, be it man and woman, 2 women or 2 men should they want to marry and if they hold religious beliefs then they should be able to enjoy all the rights the man and women would have.

Politically though, I find this whole issue floated by the PM the other day now very confusing by his Govts stance.
Firstly, he wanted to make it that any gay couple who wanted to get married should have the right to do so, if they were of the Christian faith and many gay people claim to be,that they should be able to marry in Church if the Church was willing to let them.
That was a start at least.

Secondly though,now the Govt/politicians say that that right should still be granted to the gay community but the CofE is going to be banned in law from alowing marriages between gay couples.
Either I am going daft or there is a massive amount of hypocrisy creeping in from the Govt on that one.
I suspect the latter, create more confusion and then divide seems to be the normal route this Govt has chosen to go on as to many areas now.

What a mess in my view but I do hope the day comes when Churches really wake up and come into the real world and start really reaching out to people rather than seeming hell bent on pushing more and more people away.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by King Moonracer

I think it's good news, by allowing the CofE not to conduct same sex marriage ceremonies it opens the way for it's more widespread legalisation, there's little point trying to force them to change their beliefs and impose it on them

I absolutely agree with you.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Scouse Prezzie

Exactly. This "pick and mix" notion is what pisses me off the most. You can't just cherry pick what bits of a religion you want to follow and ignore the other doctrines just because you don't like them. Bottom line is if you're not going to follow all Christianity (for example) then you don't need to bother claiming to be a Christian at all. The Bible makes itself very clear on its views on homosexuality and if you want gay marriage then you're not a Christian.

I do agree with you and InOne, but I think it must be very difficult for a gay Christian person to come to terms with that moral dilemma, because usually if you're of a religion, you've been raised with it so it's a huge part of your life, for all of your life. I think you would have to come to a compromise, in your head, between being okay with being homosexual and still trying to stick to your Christian values - so I think that's why it's such an important issue for some people. Why should they be forced out of something because of their sexuality? Yeah you can argue that it's a choice and no one's forcing them to be Christian, but, like I said, if you were raised that way, it would be very difficult to walk away from it - I imagine that religious teachings would shape the way you view the world, dictate how you act in some scenarios etc...

Anyway, not being of a religion myself, I don't really have much of an opinion on this either way, just playing devil's advocate really...

[Irene Pearson]

Originally Posted by arista

Pick and Mix


There is Enough Labour , Libs and some Conservatives
to get this through.


What do the Curch Folk want a War?
Because they sound like they will Die for this
as they do want Gays in their crib

Yup and its called Christianity. Someone should research the meaning of the word and not stick like glue to man made severely outmoded criteria. Why are churches empty??? HA

[Irene Pearson]

If Prince Charles were gay and wished to be married in church the law would be changed instantly. If princess Ann had wanted to join the upper echelons of the COE females would be in situ. Just what has their ridiculous stance on such matters got to do with the simple teachings of a carpenters son. Men in frocks did not figure and all the other dramatics and OTT symbolism - where were they in Christ's time. People now see through all of this razzle dazzle and will not be dictated to any longer . We will not give you our money and have minds and souls of our own

[Irene Pearson]

May I also add that gay couples often choose to have children. Now what was one of the man made rules re Christian marriage and children. Discrimination by the church against the children of gay couples. What a Christian bunch. How can any intelligent person swallow this absolute clap trap.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Irene Pearson

If Prince Charles were gay and wished to be married in church the law would be changed instantly. If princess Ann had wanted to join the upper echelons of the COE females would be in situ. Just what has their ridiculous stance on such matters got to do with the simple teachings of a carpenters son. Men in frocks did not figure and all the other dramatics and OTT symbolism - where were they in Christ's time. People now see through all of this razzle dazzle and will not be dictated to any longer . We will not give you our money and have minds and souls of our own

Haha, that's a pretty good point actually, isn't that where the whole religion evolved from cos Henry the Eighth wanted to be able to divorce or something like that?

[Kizzy]

Yep, the church of England is a load of old tosh!
The king james bible is not worth the paper it's printed on...

[Irene Pearson]

Originally Posted by Christmas Neeve

Haha, that's a pretty good point actually, isn't that where the whole religion evolved from cos Henry the Eighth wanted to be able to divorce or something like that?

Well exactly. What a joke. Some king cant get divorced because of those naughty catholic laws so massacres as many of them as poss, chops of a few of his missuses heads, makes up his own religion which the mindless still follow today. Christianity? I think not. They wouldn't have let Jesus in their churches in years gone by as he was actually Jewish with not exactly pure white skin. The Bible today bears little resemblance to its original form anyway because the early catholics butchered it.

[Irene Pearson]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

This whole farce is designed as a smokescreen to deflect from real issues..
Who the hell has decided that now is the time to raise this issue?...
Is is the LGBT community, or the tories in a desperate attempt to deflect interest away from the autumn statement?

yes probably

Bigots gon' bigot

[the truth]

All religious organizations have their own rules about who they are willing to marry...all of them. some turn you down if youve been married before, if youre not of suitable character in their eyes, if you dont attend regularly and if youre gay etc However some churches will decide to offer gay marriage. I dont see the fuss here to be honest. A gay couple will be able to find a church who carries out gay marriages, if their local doesnt offer this, then Im pretty sure that gay couple wouldnt want to get married there anyway. I would also add disabled people cant marry in many churches either, simply because theres no disabled access.pathetic but true. who do you blame? Jesus? No but you can blame the bishop (dioceses)vicars and minister responsible for this failure.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Bigots gon' bigot

hypocrite

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Christmas Neeve

Haha, that's a pretty good point actually, isn't that where the whole religion evolved from cos Henry the Eighth wanted to be able to divorce or something like that?

another war started by the english monarchy and not by religion

[Irene Pearson]

Originally Posted by the truth

All religious organizations have their own rules about who they are willing to marry...all of them. some turn you down if youve been married before, if youre not of suitable character in their eyes, if you dont attend regularly and if youre gay etc However some churches will decide to offer gay marriage. I dont see the fuss here to be honest. A gay couple will be able to find a church who carries out gay marriages, if their local doesnt offer this, then Im pretty sure that gay couple wouldnt want to get married there anyway. I would also add disabled people cant marry in many churches either, simply because theres no disabled access.pathetic but true. who do you blame? Jesus? No but you can blame the bishop (dioceses)vicars and minister responsible for this failure.

My point exactly. Christ's teachings were simple. Some Christian churches have turned such simplicity into amateur dramatics.

[armand.kay]

Why do gay people want to be married in a church?? that's the last place I want to spend the best day of my life...

[arista]

Originally Posted by armand.kay

Why do gay people want to be married in a church?? that's the last place I want to spend the best day of my life...

No Idea Why.


Do not know any Gays




Its down to the way they were brought up , I assume

[lily.]

They want the option, just like everyone else has it. They want to be treated the same, not better, not worse, than heterosexual people.

One day we'll look back on the things that happen today, and we'll be astonished at the narrow-mindedness and bigotry that exists.

When I read about the everyday things that happened in the deep south 50 years ago, I can't imagine living in a time where someone was treated differently because of the colour of their skin.

This is exactly the same. It's prejudice. Plain and simple. Eventually society will move past it, and that includes the churches. I hope it's sooner rather than later. I personally couldn't give a **** about anyone's sexual preference and I'm pretty sure nobody gives a **** about mine. It's completely irrelevant.

Originally Posted by the truth

hypocrite

How so?

[Irene Pearson]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Bigots gon' bigot

How so?